How do you feel about debt?

I'm with the group that feels that debt is a useful tool if used properly.
My house is totally paid for. I have a 25K HELOC for emergencies. Current balance is zero.
I do have a note on the Pilot. Took advantage of 0.9 financing after I negotiated the best price possible. Put 57% down on it to get payment down to the point that it could be comfortably absorbed into my budget, and conserve investment capital. Owe about 9.4K on it.
I use credit cards for the rewards, convenience and chargeback benefits they provide. I pay them off at the end of every month.
I do have a current exception. I put $757. worth of tires on the Mustang at a Chrysler dealer.
Rationale: Tires were buy three ($1 cheaper per tire than DTD) get the third for $1. Made the tires $143. each vs. DTD's $192.
I got an additional $100. off for opening a Chrysler MC, plus 6 mos. SAC.
I'll probably use 3 or 4 of those months to pay the tires off, so I can dollar cost average the cost into my budget.
Probably never have a use for the Chrysler charge again, as all the benefits are geared toward Chrysler owners.
However, this is an example of how debt can be a useful tool, especially if it can be used in conjunction with self discipline, to prudently manage money and leverage opportunities to save money and conserve capital.
Your theory is similar to mine. I have credit cards which we use to get cash rebates. Costco credit card is for a rebate on gas, as well as a Sams Club discount on gas which is 5%. Also both give rebates for in warehouse purchases. We got a new American Airlines Credit Card for an upcoming trip next year. Had a very expensive operation for my dog at the VET-used the card to pay the VET=2 free airline tickets.

Yes-I'm aware that those who carry balances subsidize the benefits for people like myself-but that's their problem-not mine.

Credit Cards are great when you are smart about the use and payoff every month.
 
Last edited:
Leveraging debt as an income strategy can be useful, particularly if you have no money to start with, but, debt eventually comes due. So, use it with care.

Otherwise, I hate debt. Too many people in my life have been destroyed by too much debt or thinking they have plenty of time to pay it off or simply not caring. I observe that "I am able to make the payments" is the source of most of their problems. They assume they will always be able to do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hrv
Leveraging debt as an income strategy can be useful, particularly if you have no money to start with, but, debt eventually comes due. So, use it with care.

Otherwise, I hate debt. Too many people in my life have been destroyed by too much debt or thinking they have plenty of time to pay it off or simply not caring. I observe that "I am able to make the payments" is the source of most of their problems. They assume they will always be able to do that.
Better yet leveraging NO DEBT is even better.... :)
 
Your theory is similar to mine. I have credit cards which we use to get cash rebates. Costco credit card is for a rebate on gas, as well as a Sams Club discount on gas which is 5%. Also both give rebates for in warehouse purchases. We got a new American Airlines Credit Card for an upcoming trip next year. Had a very expensive operation for my dog at the VET-used the card to pay the VET=2 free airline tickets.

Yes-I'm aware that those who carry balances subsidize the benefits for people like myself-but that's their problem-not mine.

Credit Cards are great when you are smart about the use and payoff every month.
Just got 5.25% cash back on the Ford Premium care ESP for the new Maverick. The cash back was $93.17 which was a big help.
People laugh at me when I strive for cash back. I laughed as cash back on CC's paid for a lot of stuff in the last 10 years. Sometimes I use the monthly cash back on a nice dinner out. I average $40 month in cash back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CKN
Just got 5.25% cash back on the Ford Premium care ESP for the new Maverick. The cash back was $93.17 which was a big help.
People laugh at me when I strive for cash back. I laughed as cash back on CC's paid for a lot of stuff in the last 10 years. Sometimes I use the monthly cash back on a nice dinner out. I average $40 month in cash back.
I hear you! I received almost $1,000.00 in cash back. This doesn't include a credit card where I send in for several restaurant gift cards for rebates several times a year.
 
I only thing I owe on is my house.

I haven't had a vehicle loan since 2008.


meanwhile I see people around here in my area financing newer vehicles every other year on top of their homes, campers, credit cards etc.

obviously some people don't mind never paying things off.
 
What surprises me is to see a couple in their mid to late 30's, maybe early 40's and they sell expensive vehicles, boats, etc., and claim "title in hand".

One thing I have come to realize is many people in their 60's, 70's and 80's have accumulated large amounts of wealth and have obviously been advised to dump some of that to their kids before they pass.

There were some studies done last year that reported that about 45%+ of adult kids today receive on average $800+ per month from their parents. That's an average.... 45%.
 
45%+ of adult kids today receive on average $800+ per month
I'm not sure I buy that--but I don't have time to dig into this. 45% of all adults today? Every other person you see on the street is still milking mom & dad? something seems off.

a recent survey found that half of U.S. parents with a child 18 or older still provide them with at least some financial support — and 26% said this has increased since the start of the pandemic. On average, these parents are shelling out about $1,000 per month for various expenses, according to the findings.
Problem is, that might make sense: an 18 year old might be still in high school. Or a parent is footing the bill for college. I'd be curious more about those over 22 years old (or 24 if you want, that should be past grad school).

A new Pew Research Center analysis of Census Bureau data finds that, in 2018, 24% of young adults were financially independent by age 22 or younger, compared with 32% in 1980.
Seems ****ing, except we have a large amount of people in college in this age group, or in the armed forces, so again, really need to look at >22yr old I think.

Some 45% of adults ages 18 to 29 (with at least one living parent) say they have received a lot of or some financial help from their parents in the past 12 months.
Again, 18-22, hardly shocking if a parent contributes something.

Further down is this:
For this analysis, a young adult is considered financially independent if their total income is at least 150% of the poverty level for a one-person household. By this definition, 47% of young adults (ages 18 to 29) were financially independent in 2018. This share has changed only marginally over the past four decades – in 1980, 50% of young adults were financially independent.
I only skimmed the article but this jumped out at me. Is it possible that kids are the same as ever--nothing changes under the sun--but the parents are more able now to drop some money, thus enabling the kids to have a higher standard of living, at least until their income rises? More able to drop money, or more willing to do so, not sure.
 
I have been paying down debt as much as possible for the last 6 months.
I remember the last recession and I think there is a possibility of another one coming.
 
I'm not sure I buy that--but I don't have time to dig into this. 45% of all adults today? Every other person you see on the street is still milking mom & dad? something seems off.



Parents who had an annual household income of more than $80,000 gave their kids an average $8,530. If you're in your 60's and beyond today, still working and your household income isn't above $80k, well, that's too bad. $8500/12 = $708. So I was off by $90. I bet it's climbed since the article, which was in 2021.

You can massage all the ages and reasons and numbers however you'd like. I've heard this BS justified 9 ways to Sunday.

The clear fact is that the 40 and under crowd will have some very, very tough lessons learned in their lives. Mommy and Daddy buying them everything they could ever dream of isn't helping their long term financial good.
 


Parents who had an annual household income of more than $80,000 gave their kids an average $8,530. If you're in your 60's and beyond today, still working and your household income isn't above $80k, well, that's too bad. $8500/12 = $708. So I was off by $90. I bet it's climbed since the article, which was in 2021.

You can massage all the ages and reasons and numbers however you'd like. I've heard this BS justified 9 ways to Sunday.

The clear fact is that the 40 and under crowd will have some very, very tough lessons learned in their lives. Mommy and Daddy buying them everything they could ever dream of isn't helping their long term financial good.

If the parent is paying for stupid things, then no, probably not.

However I would imagine the majority of that is helping with rent, tuition, getting started in life. These kids don't have $100,000 homes to choose from, nor reliable $3000 cars, nor cheap school, etc.
 


Parents who had an annual household income of more than $80,000 gave their kids an average $8,530. If you're in your 60's and beyond today, still working and your household income isn't above $80k, well, that's too bad. $8500/12 = $708. So I was off by $90. I bet it's climbed since the article, which was in 2021.

You can massage all the ages and reasons and numbers however you'd like. I've heard this BS justified 9 ways to Sunday.

The clear fact is that the 40 and under crowd will have some very, very tough lessons learned in their lives. Mommy and Daddy buying them everything they could ever dream of isn't helping their long term financial good.
I'm at $77,500 I feel bad now.
Card board sign and hit the corner,got to make that $2500.
 
I was always taught that debt is basically financial poison. I have always been taught to hate it. And when it is absolutely necessary, get rid of it as soon as possible. I have seen too many examples of people who either carried too much debt throughout their working lives, or else spent far too much, or all of the above.

The result was usually devastating. Sometimes divorce, along with not being able to retire. And the worst of all, seeing people get too old to work, but yet have to. All of it unnecessary, because of constant debt that was never paid off, or else wild spending on frivolous items and depreciating assets.

I was fearful of having to work when I got older, so I saved as much as I could, where I could. And I tried to minimize buying depreciating assets, such as new cars and toys that cost a lot to buy, and that you lose money on when you sell. And in the interim cost a lot to own. It all paid off because I was able to fully retire at 62.

To me now, the worst feeling I could possibly have, would be to have to wake up now, and go to work just to live. Other than getting a deadly disease of some type. Which none of us can control.
 


Parents who had an annual household income of more than $80,000 gave their kids an average $8,530. If you're in your 60's and beyond today, still working and your household income isn't above $80k, well, that's too bad. $8500/12 = $708. So I was off by $90. I bet it's climbed since the article, which was in 2021.

You can massage all the ages and reasons and numbers however you'd like. I've heard this BS justified 9 ways to Sunday.

The clear fact is that the 40 and under crowd will have some very, very tough lessons learned in their lives. Mommy and Daddy buying them everything they could ever dream of isn't helping their long term financial good.

This may sound selfish, but it's the main reason my wife and I never had kids. To us it just wasn't worth it. Especially today. I know too many people who had them, and it ended up destroying their retirements. Because they ended up getting their kids back. (Daughters getting divorced and can't support themselves and their kids).

Or else they never could get them out of the house in the first place. Today with all of these ridiculous student loans, the situation is getting worse. Mike Rowe said it the best. "We're loaning money we don't have, to kids who can't pay it back. To train them for jobs that no longer exist". Very true, and very sad.
 
I was always taught that debt is basically financial poison. I have always been taught to hate it. And when it is absolutely necessary, get rid of it as soon as possible. I have seen too many examples of people who either carried too much debt throughout their working lives, or else spent far too much, or all of the above.
I absolutely see your point and pretty much feel the same way. IMO, you are talking about bad debt. Debt (credit) is a tool when used correctly can get the job done, when used incorrectly can lead to big problems just as you said.

I carefully used debt in support of my long term goal; my goal was to minimize recurring expenses. I now live very cheaply in a wonderful area that has huge financial barriers to entry.
 
This may sound selfish, but it's the main reason my wife and I never had kids. To us it just wasn't worth it. Especially today. I know too many people who had them, and it ended up destroying their retirements. Because they ended up getting their kids back. (Daughters getting divorced and can't support themselves and their kids).

Or else they never could get them out of the house in the first place. Today with all of these ridiculous student loans, the situation is getting worse. Mike Rowe said it the best. "We're loaning money we don't have, to kids who can't pay it back. To train them for jobs that no longer exist". Very true, and very sad.


That's a sad state of affairs. I was raised by a mother who had a single income, my "father" was/is an alcoholic and left when I was about 9. I have little to no memory of him spending much time with me up to that point, so to say that he/his earnings were a positive contributing factor in our household income would be a lie.

I think my mother was making about $15k in the mid-80's, raising two rambunctious boys. IOW, we didn't have much other than a roof over our heads, food to eat and OTA TV and usually a POS vehicle I was embarrassed to be seen in. I say that I grew up dirt poor. We might have had a wooden or concrete floor beneath us, but that was about it as far as upgrades beyond that classification.

I have "worked" since I was about 9 years old. Either mowing/raking yards, taking out garbage/bringing in groceries for old neighbor ladies, to picking up empty Coke bottles to return to the store for refund.... in order to finance my needs/desires as a kid - fishing lures/line/etc., gas money for my 3.5hp B&G push mower, matchbox cars, etc.

I have become very jaded with my views today of how kids are raised and even how the 50 and under crowd has been raised by their parents. The reason why it is $80-100k for a basic 4-year degree from a state school, even in the southeast, is because **** near every single student has parents backing them, writing checks to cover 100% of the cost, or, as you say, they can secure a student loan for any amount. Then they go to college for 4, 6, 7 years and WON'T, not Don't, work a single hour during that period. They are out of college, most with a useless degree in something that no longer appeals to them and can't get a job to afford all the crap they want/need.

I don't have a 4-year degree and I'll admit - it took longer and I had to work more/harder to get where I'm at, but I'm now a 3%'er or 2%'er, whatever the class warfare dolts want to say now, and I've done it on my own.
 
Back
Top