How do I construct a serious letter to Moog?

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MOOG Part # MDWP2360 MOOG Part # RK620492 MOOG Part # RK620493 All FATAL. I would like to preface this by saying, I myself, did not know Mazda/Ford used these "press in collars". Also the previous suspension parts did not have a washer to reuse, they had flare nuts that I didn't think to reuse because the new parts had new fasteners. This last weekend I replaced the entire front suspension on my girlfriends 2003 Mazda 6 with Moog parts, as I have used them in the past and they have been great. However, Moog has a potentially fatal part on the shelves that I want to see removed from sale. In 2003 Mazda 6's the spindle is made of cast iron and the lower ball joints have a forged, press in collar to add strength to the lower ball joints, that the lower ball joints then slide through. Moog provided a Nylock nut, not a flare nut, and NO washer. So the provided nylock's diameter was not wider than the press in collar allowing the ball joint to and press in collar assembly to pop out from the spindle. There are 4 lower control arm ball joints on this car (2 a side), all able to be popped out by normal driving. One popped out while we were driving 50mph and it caused us to veer towards the oncoming lane, luckily there were no oncoming vehicles. Once the vehicle was slowed to almost a stop we could steer the car to the edge. The control arm was poking through the spokes of the wheel. I fixed the issue by using the old flare nuts from the old suspension parts. I was so upset that I wanted to sue Moog, but I can't prove that I didn't tamper with anything and I already put the car back together to get it home. However, if Moog took the time to re-assess the part on the shelf, I'm positive their engineers would see the part is fatal. Moog should ship these control arms with FLARE NUTS and not a small diameter nylock.
 
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I would write it up just like you did, but explain in more detail what's wrong with the parts. Include some pictures and reference them in your letter (i.e. "As you can see in figure 1, the nylock nut...."). Send it off to Moog and make sure to let them know they're welcome to contact you for more information. So what you're telling us it - the nut on the far right of the picture here: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1878854 is too small in diatamer and includes no washer. The hole in the part it mates to is large enough that, given a moderate amount of force, the supplied nut will slip through and allow the parts to separate. Is that right?
 

DemoFly

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Originally Posted By: Smcatub
I would write it up just like you did, but explain in more detail what's wrong with the parts. Include some pictures and reference them in your letter (i.e. "As you can see in figure 1, the nylock nut...."). Send it off to Moog and make sure to let them know they're welcome to contact you for more information. So what you're telling us it - the nut on the far right of the picture here: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1878854 is too small in diatamer and includes no washer. The hole in the part it mates to is large enough that, given a moderate amount of force, the supplied nut will slip through and allow the parts to separate. Is that right?
Correct. The supplied nylocks diameter is not wide enough to hold the press in collar in the spindle. And given a moderate amount of force, such as pot hole or speed bump, will allow the entire assembly (ball joint, collar, nylock) to pop out of the spindle. The width of the balljoint and the washer type design of a flare nut is what holds the assembly into the spindle. Without the width of a flare nut, the collar pops upwards out of the spindle.
 
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Sue for what?...nobody got hurt...except for some inconvenience let it go...send your letter...if they wanna fix it and if they are a decent company they might just ask how they can make it right for you(fix the damages on the car). .if not its on there head, they suck and let everyone u know they suck as a company.....better things in life to worry about than lawyers and all that [censored].....
 
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Did the Moog parts come with instructions to reuse the old flange nuts? You do mean flange nuts, and not flare nuts, don't you? Your use of the term "potentially fatal part" sounds vague until you explain what happened later in your post. A term such as "part with potentially grave safety implications" may be more clear. Your sentence: "So the provided nylock's diameter was not wider than the press in collar allowing the ball joint to and press in collar assembly to pop out from the spindle." Seems to have too many words in it. Reword: "The provided nylock's diameter was not larger than the press-in collar, allowing the ball joint and press-in collar assembly to pop out from the spindle." I think you definitely should bring it to Moog's attention. Whether you sue or not is up to you. I think if Moog provided the kit without instructions to reuse the original nut, and only provided the Nylok nut with no washer, that's a defective design.
 
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NOTICE: Suspension fasteners are critical parts because they affect performance of vital components and systems and their failure may result in major service expense. New parts must be installed with the same part numbers or equivalent part, if replacement is necessary. Do not use a replacement part of lesser quality or substitute design. Torque values must be used as specified during reassembly to make sure of correct retention of these parts.
 
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When I do suspension work on my car, I seek out Moog parts and in fact have Moog ball joints with the Nylock nuts on the car right now, at least 50,000 miles in. Everyone I know who works with Moog parts usually expresses the opinion when they open the box that they cannot believe how much better the Moog parts are than factory. I must ask if you would give any thought to the possibility that you have made a mistake, that the parts were not correct, or that you may have installed them incorrectly. You are talking about flare nuts in relation to suspension. Flare nuts are generally used as part of hydraulic fittings. I would also add that front suspension is a high-limit table for the amateur wrench. Many have learned this the hard way. Glad you and your girlfriend are safe.
 
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No surprise here. Moog has been making some real rubbish over the last few years. Bad boots, poorly fitting zerks, wrong zerks (straight not angled where it must be an angle) screwed up fasteners and a host of other stuff also with their other products. Not a Moog hater. I am a professional with over 42 years in the business and for a lot of those a Moog buyer. This is not a go to brand for me anymore. The original flange nuts are probably a lock nut with a slightly deformed top are a one time use nut, go to the dealer for replacements.
 
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One...you write or draft a letter...not construct it. Two... when noticing the issue, you do not just assemble and go your merry way, you correct it, even if that means reusuing certain stock parts you assumed were no longer necessary. Three.... moog parts are not what they used to be. I paid quite a sum to replace my aging tie rod inner and outters with moog parts. Not made in the US, not greasable. Junk. Less than a year later I'm having to order a set of sumitomos from japan.
 
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Sounds like either Moog failed to include washers to go under the nylocks, or you failed to install them, if they were supplied. Either way, are they illustrated on the directions? If they are, you should have noticed. If not.......Moog should correct that.
 
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Most likely you installed the parts incorrectly. In the parts are actually defective and dangerous, than you need to contact Moog AND the Consumer Product Safety Commission. That govt agency has a lot of power to make things right. http://www.cpsc.gov/
 
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MOOGs problem....Federal Mogul ownership.MOOG made its reputation when they were owned by Cooper Industries.Federal Mogul hasn't made any money in the last 2 years and lost a ton of money last year.MOOG quality will only cheapen more.FM just spun off their automotive brands to "Federal Mogul Motor Parts" to separate themselves from the rest of the FM family.
 

DemoFly

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Originally Posted By: Skid
Are you talking about flange nuts?
Yes. Sorry. -.- I had to type everything up on my lunch break.
 

DemoFly

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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Most likely you installed the parts incorrectly. In the parts are actually defective and dangerous, than you need to contact Moog AND the Consumer Product Safety Commission. That govt agency has a lot of power to make things right. http://www.cpsc.gov/
That was also my first suspicion, but I did not. The directions provided say nothing about going out and sourcing your own washer or to reuse the old flange nut. In the picture above you will see there is a small nylock provided and that is the only fastening hardware included. The nylock provided isn't meant to be used on the control arm bushing, as the control arm bolt is reused and is threaded directly into a nut-sert in the subframe. Moog intends for you to use the provided nylock on the ball joint. The directions even explicitly state to not reuse old hardware, which is ironic because you have to reuse the old control arm bolt, as they don't provide you a new one.
 
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Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Moog provided a Nylock nut, not a flare nut, and NO washer. So the provided nylock's diameter was not wider than the press in collar allowing the ball joint to and press in collar assembly to pop out from the spindle.
Not to let Moog off the hook here (if they truly did give you the wrong parts), but if the part doesn't look right when you install it, or after installation, you if you see that the nut is too small and could pop out of the spindle, you've got to stop installation and look how the old installation was assembled. If your gut tells you something is wrong, something probably is wrong.
 
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DemoFly, I'll come to your rescue wrt those saying that you likely assembled the parts incorrectly. For my A6, almost every aftermarket control arm comes with a small nylock nut. The only ones that come with the same shouldered nut are Lemforder and TRW, with both of those companies being the ones that make the OE Audi arms. On my first control arm R&R, I too used the new nylock nuts supplied with the new arms. When I had it in the dealer for a warranty repair, the tech noticed and had the SA let me know that the nut was just the right size to damage the steel insert. I reused the OE shouldered nuts and all was well (they are still on the car after 2 or 3 more control arm replacements). The aftermarket companies don't tell you, but they really just put those nylock nuts on the ball joint to keep the fancy plastic boot protector from falling off and allowing the boot to be damaged while being transported or handled by an overzealous parts store clerk. They really should warn the end user not to use the nylock nut in actual installation. The nut probably costs them $0.001 while warrantying a new arm for a torn boot is much more.
 
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