How Did Purulator Quality Control Sink So Fast?

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There always has to be an initial discovery by someone showing a potential problem. Now look how it has cascaded into a big focus on the "media tear scare".


You are correct.. Had they taken the time to research the [most likely only or select few] presented issue, none of this would be happening.

I am just saying to put yourself in Purolator's shoes. A few tears here and there isn't a big deal compared to how many filters they produce. Compare that to how many people actually cut open and discovered a tear and in their eyes, they are still making filters at a 99.99% success.


I have a different way of looking at it. Based on the relatively small amount of Purolator filters that are cut open and inspected here on BITOG vs. how many are actually used in the world, I'd say it's an alarming number of instances.

I highly doubt the 0.01% that are bad just so happen to all fall into the hands of BITOG members who happen to cut them open for a look inside.


I guess I should have restated that I was talking about the tear you found 3 years ago not being a huge issue in their eyes. I agree though.. the issues we are seeing today are very alarming.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

+1 on what you're saying. Many people hear use a filter cutter tool, and has said the media tear is always on a pleat next to the seam, and usually on both ends of the pleat. It's a very repeatable failure mode.


That explains it right there: the pleat is getting torn when the machine crimps the metal strip on the seam pleat next to it; that would also explain the pleat getting torn at both ends.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

+1 on what you're saying. Many people hear use a filter cutter tool, and has said the media tear is always on a pleat next to the seam, and usually on both ends of the pleat. It's a very repeatable failure mode.


That explains it right there: the pleat is getting torn when the machine crimps the metal strip on the seam pleat next to it; that would also explain the pleat getting torn at both ends.


I doubt it. Go buy 100 new Purolators and cut them open, I bet none will have media tears like we see here. If it was a machine doing it, then probably every Purolator would have the tear. IMO, the filter's use factor has a bearing on this issue too.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Go buy 100 new Purolators and cut them open, I bet none will have media tears like we see here.


I'd have to have the world's more severe case of OCD to be doing that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Go buy 100 new Purolators and cut them open, I bet none will have media tears like we see here.


I'd have to have the world's more severe case of OCD to be doing that.

That's real close to OCOD syndrome you know.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Purolator can run tests on a thousand filters in their labs if they want. If I was them, I'd be pulling filters off the assembly line and running them hard on their machines and cutting them all open for inspection. I'd think that kind of testing would be done all the time by filter manufacturers.

I told them about a media tear 3 years ago ... would think they would have looked into it then.


The word hasn't hit the street yet. So far the complaints have been limited to a few obsessed psychopaths on an oil forum.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

+1 on what you're saying. Many people hear use a filter cutter tool, and has said the media tear is always on a pleat next to the seam, and usually on both ends of the pleat. It's a very repeatable failure mode.


That explains it right there: the pleat is getting torn when the machine crimps the metal strip on the seam pleat next to it; that would also explain the pleat getting torn at both ends.


I would hope that there would be enough of a QC system in place to notice torn pleats from the seam... and they would not be intentionally letting known flaws into the final product.

My guess is that that because the spacing between pleats increases, there is less media. Thus the pressure increases at that area and the media collapses/tears.

I would bet on "value engineering" of some engineer/accountant combo saying "this $0.02 savings will yield 2.8 million in profits over x years" thinking that the folks not opening their filter will not notice the increased likelihood of a failure.

 

[subaroo]

Jmo, but i wouldn't be a bit surprised if Purolator is doing absolutely nothing about this tear issue.the % of complaints are us forum members or at least a good chunk anyway, and it's probably such a minuscule # so in their eyes why worry. yes, a lot of us are jumping ship, but it isn't going to affect them as a whole.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Purolator can run tests on a thousand filters in their labs if they want. If I was them, I'd be pulling filters off the assembly line and running them hard on their machines and cutting them all open for inspection. I'd think that kind of testing would be done all the time by filter manufacturers.

I told them about a media tear 3 years ago ... would think they would have looked into it then.


The word hasn't hit the street yet. So far the complaints have been limited to a few obsessed psychopaths on an oil forum.

... ya, we're all crazy and just imagining these media tears. Just wait a few weeks, and it will spread to many of the auto chat boards.

 

[qwerty1234]

Fram Tough Guards always looked like a good filter even before this demise of Purolator. I think I will take back my Menards Quaker State filter and get a Tough Guard. I don't think Purolator executives ever really thought much about people cutting open their oil filters.

I will make a wild guess and assume that some cost cutting at assembly was reason for this horrible situation. For years, I watched people hate on FRAM. Funny how times change.

 

[Hootbro]

I doubt Purolator has their head in the sand over this issue but unless there is engines exploding left and right from it, they will at best just do in sequence manufacturing change fix and let the remaining stock just get used up from attrition.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

... ya, we're all crazy and just imagining these media tears. Just wait a few weeks, and it will spread to many of the auto chat boards.

Agreed. I'm sure other automotive boards will have posters opening filters and seeing things, and then searching back and finding things here. Fixing it quickly would be in their best interests.

Bosch Premiums are one of my go to filters for the G. For the time being, I'm going to stick with Wix and Hastings. If I still had my Audi, though, I doubt I would have the slightest worry about the German Bosch.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
I would hope that there would be enough of a QC system in place to notice torn pleats from the seam... and they would not be intentionally letting known flaws into the final product.

Using the recent unused PL14610/L14610 dissection posted here recently as reference, it showed intact media in both unused filter dissections. That indicated and lend more credence to the idea that the tears are not a visible part of the assembly process. Rather, the tears are occurring sometime during the oci. That may be a disappointment to the tin foil hatters, but seems most logical to me.

Quote:
My guess is that that because the spacing between pleats in creases, there is less media. Thus the pressure increases at that area and the media collapses/tears....

Again, using the same thread as reference, at least as pertains to the PL14610 the number of pleats has not changed in that application. As long as I've been dissecting them since 2010(and never had a tear), they've had 51 pleats, and according that thread, it still has 51 pleats. So again, at least with the PL14610 application, the less media speculation doesn't hold up.

Imo, there is enough media, but the unformity of the pleat spacing next to the seam pleat appears to be the main factor. Either of two things could be done to address the issue. They could add more media as in one more pleat. Or, and likely the more logical solution, just narrow the seam pleat spacing by spreading that spacing over the complete media pleat spacing. The PL14610 has ~109" in. of media which is more than many/most of it's competitors, and making the spacing narrower in the seam area by making the spacing more uniform over the complete media pleat spacing area would address the wider seam pleat spacing.

Below is the link to the referenced thread showing no tears in a unused P1 PL14610 and Classic L14610. Unfortunately for whatever reason the pics are now deleted, which seems to be happening recently with new threads with some pics from some posters. I am left to ponder though, if they had shown tears if they would now be deleted.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3305516/1

 

[afoulk]

This all makes me feel a little bit better about my decision to stick with Fram Tough Guards on our vehicles a couple years ago. The occasional post about tears in Purolator filters back then was enough to make me switch. yeah, their probably overpriced for what they are, but I've never had an issue with one, especially with the ADBV like I have with Purolator Classics and Pureones.

 

[andrewp1998]

Was in Kmart today and they are clearing out all Purolator filters, big mark downs! Gee I wonder why? I checked out the purone and the syn filters and they had overspray and flecks on the baseplate!

 

[Hyde244]

Call me skeptical when I do not think that a handful of torn oil filter medias is enough to doubt quality of a multi-million dollar business.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A hand full of reports from just a hand full of users. I think it's way more common on certain Purolator models of filter than most people think.

 

[Whimsey]

Has any one had torn filter media on a PL24651(FL820S size equivalent) or a PL14670(PH16 size equivalent)? I'll cut open my wife's Explorer PL24651 when I change it in about a month. I'll also cut open a FL820S that was on her Explorer for about 9,000 miles previously.

Whimsey

 

[Sierra048]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
I would hope that there would be enough of a QC system in place to notice torn pleats from the seam... and they would not be intentionally letting known flaws into the final product.

Using the recent unused PL14610/L14610 dissection posted here recently as reference, it showed intact media in both unused filter dissections. That indicated and lend more credence to the idea that the tears are not a visible part of the assembly process. Rather, the tears are occurring sometime during the oci. That may be a disappointment to the tin foil hatters, but seems most logical to me.

Quote:
My guess is that that because the spacing between pleats in creases, there is less media. Thus the pressure increases at that area and the media collapses/tears....

Again, using the same thread as reference, at least as pertains to the PL14610 the number of pleats has not changed in that application. As long as I've been dissecting them since 2010(and never had a tear), they've had 51 pleats, and according that thread, it still has 51 pleats. So again, at least with the PL14610 application, the less media speculation doesn't hold up.

Imo, there is enough media, but the unformity of the pleat spacing next to the seam pleat appears to be the main factor. Either of two things could be done to address the issue. They could add more media as in one more pleat. Or, and likely the more logical solution, just narrow the seam pleat spacing by spreading that spacing over the complete media pleat spacing. The PL14610 has ~109" in. of media which is more than many/most of it's competitors, and making the spacing narrower in the seam area by making the spacing more uniform over the complete media pleat spacing area would address the wider seam pleat spacing.

Below is the link to the referenced thread showing no tears in a unused P1 PL14610 and Classic L14610. Unfortunately for whatever reason the pics are now deleted, which seems to be happening recently with new threads with some pics from some posters. I am left to ponder though, if they had shown tears if they would now be deleted.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3305516/1


Sayjac,

Sorry you referenced the thread I started and the pictures weren't there. That was my fault and it was not intended. I'm not good with technology and I accidentally deleted the pictures from photobucket while trying to erase duplicates. Having said that, if I had intentionally deleted them, I still wouldn't have realized the implications of deleting the pictures and having them disappear from my thread. I'm just not that good when it comes to technology. Had it not been for my son those pictures wouldn't have been there at all. If I hadn't thrown those filters away I would have gladly taken new pictures and re-posted.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Purolator can run tests on a thousand filters in their labs if they want. If I was them, I'd be pulling filters off the assembly line and running them hard on their machines and cutting them all open for inspection. I'd think that kind of testing would be done all the time by filter manufacturers.

I told them about a media tear 3 years ago ... would think they would have looked into it then.


The word hasn't hit the street yet. So far the complaints have been limited to a few obsessed psychopaths on an oil forum.

From late 2011:

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/94-98-7...er-failure.html

Very disappointed by the response. I should start such a business- if you catch a quality problem with our product, you've tampered with it, and there's no way to catch a problem (short of can burst) without tampering, so ha ha ha it's NOT OUR PROBLEM.

I have two Purolator's running right now, a Classic and a PureOne. I'm buying a better can cutter (previously I just cut crudely to drain better and take a peek). If they are OK I'll use the rest of each batch, since I bought a bunch at a time. If either have a problem I'll ping Purolator and start buying something else.