How can a vehicle have a insurance total loss, but still have a clean title?

[MSCH]

always looking at cars and i have noticed that there are car that state " insurance total loss, but has a clean title". is this possible? this is in WA state.

my guess would be the car effectively was purchase by insurance as repairs cost more than value of car, then car was sold at auction to someone who put it back together and it never went thru the complete destruction process required to get a salvage title.

 

[atikovi]

my guess would be the car effectively was purchase by insurance as repairs cost more than value of car, then car was sold at auction to someone who put it back together and it never went thru the complete destruction process required to get a salvage title.

What's this "complete destruction process" you refer to?

 

[MSCH]

What's this "complete destruction process" you refer to?

where the car goes to the crusher... ... but there are salvage titles and regular titles.. original question revolves around non salvage titles.. my only thought is just because an insurance company paid off a car and took possession, doesn't mean it becomes salvage or gets a salvage title.. right?

 

[atikovi]

where the car goes to the crusher... ... but there are salvage titles and regular titles.. original question revolves around non salvage titles.. my only thought is just because an insurance company paid off a car and took possession, doesn't mean it becomes salvage or gets a salvage title.. right?

Wrecked cars have thousands of dollars worth of good parts left on them. Unless it's a total burn car, they rarely go straight to the crusher.

When the insurance company pays out on a total loss, they get car and it's title from the owner. They are then supposed to use that to apply for a salvage title in order to sell it off. If you want to keep the car, you think they would just give you less money for it and the title wouldn't change, but states have been clamping down on this and have fined insurance companies for not getting salvage titles on badly damaged cars.

 

[MSCH]

Wrecked cars have thousands of dollars worth of good parts left on them. Unless it's a total burn car, they rarely go straight to the crusher.

When the insurance company pays out on a total loss, they get car and it's title from the owner. They are then supposed to use that to apply for a salvage title in order to sell it off. If you want to keep the car, you think they would just give you less money for it and the title wouldn't change, but states have been clamping down on this and have fined insurance companies for not getting salvage titles on badly damaged cars.

key word.... "supposed" to...

 

[zzyzzx]

A rental car can be wrecked many times and never show up on CarFax.

 

[wtd]

My fiancé's son's 2008 Ford Focus was totaled after someone ran into it when it was parked on the street in front of his house. Since the car was still repairable, she took about $900 less to keep the car and the suspension parts that were bent were replaced and the body work was somewhat banged back out. She never had to turn in the title so she still has the same title that she had before the accident. He is still driving the car a year and a half later.

This happened at the end of 2021 and the full payout for the car was going to be $5,900. She kept the car and got $5,000. She only paid $4,000 for it about a year and a half earlier.

 

[M3thod]

A few notes/ thoughts:
(1) what is the definition of total loss, and who is determining this. One example is a theft of a motor vehicle that has been paid out by an insurance company, and later recovered and the motor vehicle did not suffer a 70 percent body damage or more during the theft.

Sorry for dredging this old post back up...This is what I am currently trying to figure how to deal with.

I bought a 2014 Ram 1500 In 2020, it seem like it was too good to be true and I should've known better and checked the carfax. The truck was super clean, only had 20k miles. But I bought it from a very large franchised dealership chain here in Houston, like in the top 3 largest dealership chains. So

I felt somewhat safe from shady dealings.


So bought the truck, mind you the truck a great truck, I've replaced the thermostat on it and that's it. Common thing for Rams. However a year after I bought it I attempted to refinance twice and both attempts initially were pre approved up until the details of the truck came out and title checks happened ultimately getting declined. The first time I was shocked but blew it off but the second time I was like ***? They told that the title history showed that the truck was stolen in 2015, insurance company claimed a total loss and paid the claim. Shortly after that claim was paid it was recovered. I believe that was on 6/11/15. It was retitled and sold on 6/13/15 and stored with Carpros (I know for a fact they take total loss vehicles bc that's where one of. are went after Harvey hit and was flooded.

So when I found out about all of this I knew none of this was disclosed and certainly that can't be legal, right? I files a complaint with TXDMV Licensing Board, the sale was Investigated and I was told the dealership did no wrongdoing. At the time I was livid and didn't even continue reading the email. I re-read the email and it continued to say

"You may have other claims or avenues of redress that can be pursued against the licensee. You may wish to consult with a private attorney to discuss your options."

Yeah, this email was 2 years ago, I feel pretty dumb not reading it back then.

So I said all that to say this, or ask this rather. So it wasn't a retained salvage, the insurance took possession of the truck after it was claimed and paid as a total loss, reported as "theft recovery after claim paid" on the title history, But was never branded with a salvaged title, and sold at auction as a clean title. Yet everytime a dealership looks at it to trade in, it is treated as a salvaged vehicle and results in significant value loss killing every deal I try and work. So would the insurance company that claimed the total loss and neglected to report it as a salvaged title be the "Lincensee" the TXDMV investigator is referring to? Any idea of what kind of recourse I can take or if it is even worth it? It's my luck that the insurance company is also a giant of the industry as well. Lucky me.

Thanks in advance for any time you give this comment. Sorry about the novel I just wrote. I am pretty much put of ideas and could use a nudge in the right direction.

 

[GON]

Sorry for dredging this old post back up...This is what I am currently trying to figure how to deal with.

I bought a 2014 Ram 1500 In 2020, it seem like it was too good to be true and I should've known better and checked the carfax. The truck was super clean, only had 20k miles. But I bought it from a very large franchised dealership chain here in Houston, like in the top 3 largest dealership chains. So

I felt somewhat safe from shady dealings.


So bought the truck, mind you the truck a great truck, I've replaced the thermostat on it and that's it. Common thing for Rams. However a year after I bought it I attempted to refinance twice and both attempts initially were pre approved up until the details of the truck came out and title checks happened ultimately getting declined. The first time I was shocked but blew it off but the second time I was like ***? They told that the title history showed that the truck was stolen in 2015, insurance company claimed a total loss and paid the claim. Shortly after that claim was paid it was recovered. I believe that was on 6/11/15. It was retitled and sold on 6/13/15 and stored with Carpros (I know for a fact they take total loss vehicles bc that's where one of. are went after Harvey hit and was flooded.

So when I found out about all of this I knew none of this was disclosed and certainly that can't be legal, right? I files a complaint with TXDMV Licensing Board, the sale was Investigated and I was told the dealership did no wrongdoing. At the time I was livid and didn't even continue reading the email. I re-read the email and it continued to say

"You may have other claims or avenues of redress that can be pursued against the licensee. You may wish to consult with a private attorney to discuss your options."

Yeah, this email was 2 years ago, I feel pretty dumb not reading it back then.

So I said all that to say this, or ask this rather. So it wasn't a retained salvage, the insurance took possession of the truck after it was claimed and paid as a total loss, reported as "theft recovery after claim paid" on the title history, But was never branded with a salvaged title, and sold at auction as a clean title. Yet everytime a dealership looks at it to trade in, it is treated as a salvaged vehicle and results in significant value loss killing every deal I try and work. So would the insurance company that claimed the total loss and neglected to report it as a salvaged title be the "Lincensee" the TXDMV investigator is referring to? Any idea of what kind of recourse I can take or if it is even worth it? It's my luck that the insurance company is also a giant of the industry as well. Lucky me.

Thanks in advance for any time you give this comment. Sorry about the novel I just wrote. I am pretty much put of ideas and could use a nudge in the right direction.

Thanks for joining BITOG- and very sorry this happened to you, not fair to you.

What you have is a truck with a clean title- yet branded. Your truck is not a salvage, nor a rebuilt title. Your dealership knew the truck was identified as a branded vehicle by carfax, but was not a salvage, or rebuilt title. A carfax will show a vehicle with a "clean" title still be a branded. You have identified the critical issue with a clean title yet branded the- challenges to finance.

On a good note, Texas's largest credit union RBFCU will finance a branded title without question. They will finance the branded identified clean title for up to 50 percent of what they would loan on the same vehicle without a branding.

Of note- this branding is a true fluke designed I suspect by Carfax and copied by its two competitors- as there truly is not a legal definition of branded title, just as there is not a legal definition of a clear title.

The lawsuit (not winnable) is really against carfax and its peer competitors for labeling a vehicle with a clean title on the same category as a vehicle with a salvage, rebuilt, or lemon law title.

 

[atikovi]

They told that the title history showed that the truck was stolen in 2015, insurance company claimed a total loss and paid the claim. Shortly after that claim was paid it was recovered.

That's pretty much how insurance companies deal with recovered thefts. If the vehicle isn't found within a week or two, the owner gives their insurance company the title in exchange for a check. If the vehicle is found, the insurance company takes the title to the DMV and applies for title in their name so it can be sold off. A salvage title because, well, the vehicle has been "salvaged" after being lost, and because most state DMVs require insurance companies get salvage titles in the first place. If there is only light damage or even no significant damage, it can be a great deal if you're buying for yourself and not to resell. After all, you are buying a car, not a piece of paper. If the selling dealer didn't disclose the salvage history, you will have to lawyer up against them or maybe try small claims court.

 

[GON]

O

That's pretty much how insurance companies deal with recovered thefts. If the vehicle isn't found within a week or two, the owner gives their insurance company the title in exchange for a check. If the vehicle is found, the insurance company takes the title to the DMV and applies for title in their name so it can be sold off. A salvage title because, well, the vehicle has been "salvaged" after being lost, and because most state DMVs require insurance companies get salvage titles in the first place. If there is only light damage or even no significant damage, it can be a great deal if you're buying for yourself and not to resell. After all, you are buying a car, not a piece of paper. If the selling dealer didn't disclose the salvage history, you will have to lawyer up against them or maybe try small claims court.

It wasn't a salvage title, as clearly stated by the response in the thread. It was a clean title with a branded identity from Carfax.

 

[atikovi]

It wasn't a salvage title, as clearly stated by the response in the thread. It was a clean title with a branded identity from Carfax.

Maybe I missed that in the long post. The point was that if it was a recovered theft with little or no damage, then it's nothing to worry too much about as to the condition of the truck. If the concern is about resale value, that's another issue.

 

[M3thod]

Thanks for joining BITOG- and very sorry this happened to you, not fair to you.

What you have is a truck with a clean title- yet branded. Your truck is not a salvage, nor a rebuilt title. Your dealership knew the truck was identified as a branded vehicle by carfax, but was not a salvage, or rebuilt title. A carfax will show a vehicle with a "clean" title still be a branded. You have identified the critical issue with a clean title yet branded the- challenges to finance.

On a good note, Texas's largest credit union RBFCU will finance a branded title without question. They will finance the branded identified clean title for up to 50 percent of what they would loan on the same vehicle without a branding.

Of note- this branding is a true fluke designed I suspect by Carfax and copied by its two competitors- as there truly is not a legal definition of branded title, just as there is not a legal definition of a clear title.

The lawsuit (not winnable) is really against carfax and its peer competitors for labeling a vehicle with a clean title on the same category as a vehicle with a salvage, rebuilt, or lemon law title.

So as a citizen and resident of texas If I retain a total loss vehicle I am "required" to report it to the state as a salvaged vehicle (this even being up to the owner of the vehicle is pretty dumb if you ask me, no conflict of interest at all there). So there is no requirement if the insurance company was able to write it off as a total loss and still be able to sell it, seems like a win win to me, bc I know they stuck it to the original buyer who reported it stolen? If that's the case, I think I'm gettin a policy with them and finding a lake..lol. This is such a bs loophole that puts the burden of the loss on the end buyer...me. Sometimes you just gotta give them a taste of their own medicine.

 

[M3thod]

Maybe I missed that in the long post. The point was that if it was a recovered theft with little or no damage, then it's nothing to worry too much about as to the condition of the truck. If the concern is about resale value, that's another issue.

That's precisely my concern, now I'm the one who has to eat the negative equity. I filed another complaint, only this time against the insurance company.

 

[D60]

That's precisely my concern, now I'm the one who has to eat the negative equity. I filed another complaint, only this time against the insurance company.

Let us know what happens! I have no predictions, I'm just genuinely curious