How about a car black box

[Jonny Z]

In light of all these Toyota claims, what if they mandate a black box with all vehicle ECUs, that retains the operation data for the last 30 mins of vehicle operation in NVRAM?

This will sort out the cases where the driver swears he/ she was stepping on the brake instead of the gas, or whether there was stuck pedal, failed pedal sensor, throttle motor, or ECU logic fault.

The black box should be independent from the ECU, and retain data in a standard format. And a judge needs to issue a warrant, for its data to be extracted, should not operator no volunteer the submission.

Yay or nay?

 

[wapacz]

They have them. Though Toyota's for some reason can only be opened by Toyota. Something about a double key being needed to read the data from them.

Also pretty sure almost all cars in the last at least 5 if not 10 years have had it.

 

[Moose016]

NAY. The last thing I want is more electronic monitoring and regulation of my driving. Also they have this info on new cars, if I were to buy a new car, I would have it removed.

 

[dwendt44]

A very few cars already have them. Corvettes?
But yes, a court order should be required to access it.

 

[Jonny Z]

Originally Posted By: wapacz
They have them. Though Toyota's for some reason can only be opened by Toyota. Something about a double key being needed to read the data from them.

Also pretty sure almost all cars in the last at least 5 if not 10 years have had it.


If so why didn't regulators make them publish the data to support their floor mat / pedal claim? From Toyo's perspective I would think it is to their best interest, to make public the data, to stump the ECU rumors, if they are indeed, just rumors.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

They already are in most new cars. They are called EDR's (Event Data Recorders). My 08 CR-V has one.

 

[eljefino]

They have them in most airbag controllers.

But if a gas pedal potentiometer shorts out and falseley reads WOT that bad data will be saved in the black box and further falsely incriminate the driver.

 

[bepperb]

Agreed with eljefino, in all these instances the ECU would read 100% on the TPS. So what. Doesn't tell if it was a floormat, a stuck pedal, an idiot driver, a shorted wire....

There is of course the privacy issue which is why only Toyota will read it and only after a court order.

 

[bdcardinal]

Theyve had them for a long time. On the Ford units we cannot read them at the dealer, someone from corporate comes out to read them when there is a court order to do so.

 

[JetStar]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Agreed with eljefino, in all these instances the ECU would read 100% on the TPS. So what. Doesn't tell if it was a floormat, a stuck pedal, an idiot driver, a shorted wire....

There is of course the privacy issue which is why only Toyota will read it and only after a court order.


Actually a black box could tell you a lot, not only what is a possible cause, but what could be ruled out. The TPPS (throttle pedal position sensor)is in a two channel servo loop where both channels must agree before sending a command for throttle movement to the actuator on the throttle body, which by the way has position feedback. All of these signals could be processed and stored in a black box for analysis. If they were smart, they could sense whether or not a foot is on the pedal.
For example if your black box tells you that both channels of the TPPS are at 0%, the actuator command was at o%, but position feedback was at 100%, you have a runaway actuator and you better be shutting down the fuel and ignition. This is the same priciple used on Fly By Wire flight controls that I work on every day. It aint rocket science. If the auto manufacturers don't design in the same safety monitoring used in Fly By Wire systems in aircraft, they deserve what they get.

My new tacoma has a black box but toyota seems to be the only ones that can pull the data. I don't think it can be done at the dealer. The data could be a liability to them eh? Details on the box are slim. I've not been able to find how many channels it processes, the frame rate, or the length of data recorded.
Do I want it there? Not really. If it helps them solve their issue, I guess it's a plus.
I've read all kinds of stuff on the internet about the data having been used to deny warranties, accident investigations, and convict people in wrongful death cases. I don't know how much of this is true.
How about traffic light cameras. I was dead against them at first, then I saw a case about somebody being killed by a light runner, the footage was used to convict him.