Household electrical switch

[supton]

Are they rated for inrush on florescent lighting? I have several lights in the basement, 48" tubes, IIRC I added it up once and it was 640W of lighting. I just replaced the switch with a standard 15A switch. It is a cheapo switch from Home Depot and I'm going to replace it, as it doesn't have a "solid" click to it.

Not quite so off-topic: I decided it was a bit chilly in the basement, so I figured I'd turn on a space heater to "high"--I usually use the low setting. I plugged it into an outlet, forgetting that it was a switched outlet. Turns out this outlet goes through this switch. When I went down a couple hours later it smelled really bad--like air out of an inner tube. Probably the heater, burning off whatever was on it (I've never used it on high). Going up out of the basement I flipped off the light (I had left it on) and did a double take when it felt warm... Flipping it revealed it was indeed warm--and now it wouldn't turn off.

Killed power to the basement, replaced the switch. Switch is rated for 3A/250V / 6A/125V, made by "Eagle" in the USA. I cracked it open; didn't find anything scorched, but it stinks like an inner tube, just not as bad as the basement now does.

I guess running a 1,500W heater through a switch rated for 6A isn't a great idea...

 

[Donald]

There is a lot of cheap electrical stuff out there. Especially the cheap contractor packs of switches and outlets at Home Depot.

 

[SuperDave456]

Yeah, I've learned that running anything on a circuit besides a 1,500 watt heater is a bad idea. I just replaced the breaker panel in my home, the Federal Pacific circuit breaker panel is known for not breaking and burning houses down.
Now when I overload a circuit I know as the circuit is overloaded as the new breakers are sensitive.

Any heater, on high, that is 1,500 watts, when not alone on a circuit, will pop it.

Be very careful, wiring in old houses can be questionable.
Even with good switches, with heavy loads you can run into trouble.

 

[supton]

I think it was an old switch. Like decades old, that brown plastic like you find from, I dunno, I want to say 60's but that doesn't seem right. The new switch feels junky, and the kids have broken a couple of these HD switches, when they were younger.

Oh: it was 1,500W of heat plus at least 300W of lighting through the switch. On a 20A breaker. I'm going to have to break out some calipers later; my money says it's 14g wiring too, if only because of Murphy's Law.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Yeah, I've learned that running anything on a circuit besides a 1,500 watt heater is a bad idea. I just replaced the breaker panel in my home, the Federal Pacific circuit breaker panel is known for not breaking and burning houses down.
Now when I overload a circuit I know as the circuit is overloaded as the new breakers are sensitive.

Any heater, on high, that is 1,500 watts, when not alone on a circuit, will pop it.

Be very careful, wiring in old houses can be questionable.


In my case, the prior owner replaced most/all of the wiring. Save for this switch apparently. I did have to fix one wire nut once where the wires had come undone and killed the outlet; not looking forward to the next electrical issue.

 

[The_Jeff]

The 50 cent switches are only "good for" 500 watts or so. You want a "Horsepower rated" switch which, surprise, costs a few bucks. Even though they read 15 amp, a cheapie switch can't take the arcing/ inrush current.

 

[supton]

We have a couple of CFL's in the bathroom, and I've often seen the arc on just that switch. Given the capacitance in anything switch-mode I'm surprised that there have not been more issues with CFL's.

"Horsepower" switch? Will look to buy a few of those, thanks.

 

[rjundi]

Glad it worked out. It seems in my state a few homes have burned (at least on with death) down due to overloaded extension cords and it typically involves a space heater.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Not sure when your house was built, but make sure it doesn't have aluminum wiring.

Aluminum wiring takes special fixtures, they should really use special crimped wire end adapters.

Aluminum wiring is bad news, switches can get hot and start fires.

See this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_wire

 

[Quest]

There are several issues that I can see:

1st: you are relying on some decades old wall toggle switch to take care of 15amps of switching? You do know that all power switches have a finite service life before their contact points (due to repetitive switching with micro-arcing, will oxidise and becomes resistive...which exacerbates the problem further)?

(2)while it is indeed true that CFL relies on Switching Power supply methodology on their primary input side, the surge is momentary (in the matter of 10~30ms and most contact switches can tolerate it (not the circuit breaker).

Are your 48" tubes on mag ballasts or electronic ballasts?

(3) I'm with Corvette owner RE: not sure if your house is built with Alu wiring, but to extend on that a bit further: unless your house is built with proper wiring (copper, example: 14-2 NMD-90 or similar), over the years of usage (toggle wall switch, thermalcycling (high current load) on the switch side, have too many in-wall junction boxes within, etc. (with is illegal btw, will lead to housefires).

Granted: you do not have any illegal junction boxes (from your heater + lighting to the circuit breaker), and coupled with a high quality wall toggle light switch, and most important of all: the wiring distance from your end-device to the breakbox is not too far, then they should be more than capable of handling at least 1000watts or more easily (all the way up to 1,800Watts/15Amps, per circuit breaker).

Check all the wirings, etc. and consider replacing any warm/faulty/failing wiring and/or toggle switches before you re-consider doing something like that again.

Q.

 

[datech]

I had to rewire my entire house because it had a mixture of knob and tube and screwy panel breakers mixed with screw in fuses.

I bought this book at the lumber yard on wiring. It was just a small paperback, probably costs about 3 bucks, but it was well worth it.

I think generally space heaters should only be used on their own circuit,not sharing with any other loads. I always try to get the kind that have different heat levels and use the lower levels to reduce the wattage.

 

[Dan55]

You would be better off using a spec grade switch http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-20-Am...1-2WS/202035005

 

[SuperDave456]

+1 on the 20 Amp heavy duty switch.
They make them in many styles.

 

[supton]

House was rewired in the last 20 years; the prior owner did extensive rework. I guess now that I'm looking I do see some older looking outlets; but all the wiring is the recent wire encapsulated stuff, whatever it is called. Romex? 14g and 12g, would have to chase every run to figure out which is which, but it's a small house, so nothing is really a long run (20'x28' footprint). No Al wiring. New 200A breaker panel, but main breaker is 60A, as the service was never upgraded.

So I plead ignorance. I would have replaced the light switch years ago had I known it was undersized! You should have felt that switch though: solid thunk as it moved position.

No idea on the ballasts. Must be on the top or something, I just don't see a ballast. When I bought the house half the tubes were bad, and so I've always simply run with half the tubes installed (bought some new ones, but just half-populated).

 

[datech]

I don't think your light switch is undersized. It is just a light switch,not designed to switch a heavy load like a space heater.

Lights are usually 100 watts or less. A switched wall outlet is designed to work with a table lamp, nothing more.

 

[supton]

So, should I remove this outlet from the switch? It's in the basement, only natural that it'd get heavy loads.

 

[The_Jeff]

It may be less convenient but if you use the heater's own switch it will reduce arcing on the wall switch. The abuse is during the making and breaking of contact, not the current flow through otherwise.

It sounds though like the switch was put up at the top of the stairs to run the heater down there to keep pipes from freezing etc.

 

[doitmyself]

For safety sake, make sure that any 14 gauge circuits only have 15 amp breakers.

This below does not make sense either. Can someone else expand on this:

Quote:
New 200A breaker panel, but main breaker is 60A, as the service was never upgraded.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
It may be less convenient but if you use the heater's own switch it will reduce arcing on the wall switch. The abuse is during the making and breaking of contact, not the current flow through otherwise.

It sounds though like the switch was put up at the top of the stairs to run the heater down there to keep pipes from freezing etc.


I forget the exact reasoning, and i bet he did too. He did put a switch in on half the lighting, to turn off "unused" lights, but while that switch is next to the outlet this outlet isn't switched by this second switch. I *think* what happened was he ran but one circuit for the basement lights and outlets (furnace and well pump on their own circuits), and thus wound up with outlets on the switch.

Most if not all the outlets that I've been using have been on a different run, one that I put in. 99% sure it's a 20A run, I recall buying 12g wire specifically for it, but of course I didn't mark the box as to which breaker it's on.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
For safety sake, make sure that any 14 gauge circuits only have 15 amp breakers.

This below does not make sense either. Can someone else expand on this:

Quote:
New 200A breaker panel, but main breaker is 60A, as the service was never upgraded.


Pretty sure it's a 200A panel, but upon inspection it doesn't state 200A. Very recent GE panel. Never had a need to upgrade electrical service, so the drop is ancient. With oil heat, propane stove and dryer, 60A has been sufficent. But where the house was gutted and redone, the electric was also gutted and redone. Save for this switch, and unfortunately the framing.