House wiring question

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supton

supton

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At the i laws this weekend, and wife got zapped by a light switch. I checked it out. Metal plate, and it was hot. Killed the circuit, pulled out the switch. Wires twisted together, no wire nuts, grounds not tied to metal box, feed ground might not be tied to anything, neutral is being switched, bleh. I fixed the hot problem but not sure i want to volunteer to fix--not sure what CT requires. As it is I always have to look up which wire is hot.

My questions are, the wires should always be long enough to pull out for rework, and when did they come up with breakers with two poles on it? Not a 240 setup, but two toggles on one breaker.
 
Neutral is white, hot is black (and switched), and the box should be grounded to the bare wire.

For 120V, a breaker should sit across one of the 240V splits in the breaker box to give you 120V.

The white wire and bare ground wire should go to the ground bus inside the breaker box.

Sounds like an electrician needs to rewire for safety's sake.
 
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Its a split breaker, Runs two different circuits.

It takes up the space of one breaker but gives you two.
 
http://www.lowes.com/pd_71816-296-QOT2020CP_4294722478__?productId=3129465&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Tandem breaker, goes to show how much I ought to play with this stuff. New one on me.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
At the i laws this weekend, and wife got zapped by a light switch. I checked it out. Metal plate, and it was hot. Killed the circuit, pulled out the switch. Wires twisted together, no wire nuts, grounds not tied to metal box, feed ground might not be tied to anything, neutral is being switched, bleh. I fixed the hot problem but not sure i want to volunteer to fix--not sure what CT requires. As it is I always have to look up which wire is hot.

My questions are, the wires should always be long enough to pull out for rework, and when did they come up with breakers with two poles on it? Not a 240 setup, but two toggles on one breaker.


In a perfect world and a simple box, yes the wires should be long enough to pull out for a rework. But many put too much stuff in a box and there is not enough room behind the switches/outlets for all the wiring.

Two things that [censored] me off about wiring, people that use the spring loaded "quick connect" vs putting the wire around a screw. And electricians who use #14 going to a outlet. The savings in a house are less than $100. My laser printer can dim the lights. Not saying the circuits need to be 20 amp, just the wire should be #12 unless lighting circuit.
 
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Also while black is hot and white is neutral, it is entirely possible someone hooks it up backward for some reason. I always test for which lead is hot.
 
Yuck, not a fan of tandem breakers. Would rather see a second load center coming off the first, rated at some fraction of the ampacity of the main breaker.

But that's a bigger project.

I wouldn't be afraid to change the switch, and make the wiring in that box right, but I'd be wary of other issues hiding out there.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Usually when a house has one circuit that is not proper, there are many more similar problems in the same house.


This. I have seen it too many times that previous owners bungled up the wiring.
 
I live 200 miles from the in laws, not going to start something too soon. Simple work but I could kill a weekend depending what I find. Also would need to read up a bit first, get some basics.
 
My father is now an electrical inspector for a small village. They don't need a full-time guy, so he's on an "on call" basis. He's semi-retired, doing this after being an commercial and residential electrician for 30+ years.

It never amazes him how people, who have next to no knowledge about electricity, will think that they're more than qualified to wire up the lights and pump on a hot tub, pool, or jacuzzi.... when a mistake could easily mean electrocution to anyone in the water. Yeah, it was fine until the pump kicked on....

They just busted a fly-by-night contractor who hired out of state plumbers in a plain white van... and did the wiring themselves... on one of those "walk-in-bathtubs" for a local elderly couple. And of course, they didn't file a single permit for any of the work.

And there's the two obvious signs of people who have done electrical work, who shouldn't have tried it.

One example I saw myself in a house that was for sale. A piece of 40 amp range cable that was spliced to some 12-2 Romex. And the splice was a "flying" splice, no junction box. The wires had been twisted and covered with electrical tape. This was in the basement, stapled to a floor joist.

The other example is splices that are twisted, soldered, with a wire nut on the splice, and about a half roll of electrical tape covering everything so that the splice is the size of a golf ball.

Both examples are of the work of people who have no business working on wiring in a house. When my Dad sees examples like this, he has to try and figure out if these are anomalies, or if the person had done other "work" inside of the house.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04

Both examples are of the work of people who have no business working on wiring in a house.


The scary part is some of the work that is done by licensed electricians in public buildings. I know of a pizza place near me (that's actually part of a national chain) where the green wire is not ground. I don't know how that ever passed an inspection.
 
Kruse, I wonder how some of these things pass inspection too. Maybe the builders have inspectors in their pockets.

Originally Posted By: Donald
...

Two things that [censored] me off about wiring, people that use the spring loaded "quick connect" vs putting the wire around a screw. And electricians who use #14 going to a outlet. The savings in a house are less than $100...


Same here, it upsets me to find that thin wire used where it really shouldn't, and only to save so few $$.
Let's just wire an entire room (lights and multiple wall sockets) off one 15 amp circuit with the thinnest wire we can find.
crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04

Both examples are of the work of people who have no business working on wiring in a house.


The scary part is some of the work that is done by licensed electricians in public buildings. I know of a pizza place near me (that's actually part of a national chain) where the green wire is not ground. I don't know how that ever passed an inspection.


Dad just had to inspect a new BBQ restaurant. Someone had taken a 220 volt feed and wired it to a standard 110 volt outlet in the kitchen. When it LOOKS like a standard 110 volt outlet, you'd naturally EXPECT it to be a 110 volt outlet, right?

Obvious that his 110 volt tester had been fried, Dad goes out to this truck and gets his Wiggy (a voltage tester), and finds 220 volts. So, he asks the "electrician" as to why he had 220 volts hooked up to a standard 110 volt outlet?

Of course, it is because that was the plug that the (second-hand) piece of equipment had arrived with.

And yet another "red flag", and the level of scrutiny gets turned up another couple of notches.



Edited to explain what a "Wiggy" is... It occurred to me that not everyone would know.
 
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Once I worked for a local electric supply company. During that time, one Christmas season, one of the employees who had wired his own house with two 120 sockets in the same room with each using one of the sides of 240, topped it off with his Christmas tree having too many lights to run them all from one socket. So two sockets were used (one of each side of the 240). Then while working on the tree he managed to get connected between the two so he got hit with 240. He did not survive.

Moral of story, all 120 circuits of each floor should be from the same side of the 240. Imagine a fridge with leakage plugged into one side of 240, and a dish-washer with leakage on the other side of the 240. Some day someone manages to touch both the fridge and the dishwasher at the same time. Of course they can only do that once, because after that they are no longer counted among the living.
 
That's a new one to me. Makes me think it is a moot point, if everything is properly tied to ground, though. It's also impossible in my house, as my upstairs is like 15x20 and is just a bedroom, while the downstairs is 28x20 and has the usual kitchen and bath. My kitchen/dining is "open concept" and is 20x20.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Once I worked for a local electric supply company. During that time, one Christmas season, one of the employees who had wired his own house with two 120 sockets in the same room with each using one of the sides of 240, topped it off with his Christmas tree having too many lights to run them all from one socket. So two sockets were used (one of each side of the 240). Then while working on the tree he managed to get connected between the two so he got hit with 240. He did not survive.

Moral of story, all 120 circuits of each floor should be from the same side of the 240. Imagine a fridge with leakage plugged into one side of 240, and a dish-washer with leakage on the other side of the 240. Some day someone manages to touch both the fridge and the dishwasher at the same time. Of course they can only do that once, because after that they are no longer counted among the living.


That used to be a fad among kitchen designers, so one could run the toaster and coffee pot off the same duplex outlet at the same time. Wouldn't be able to pull it off nowadays with GFIs everywhere; no tab in between the screws to bust/remove.
 
Scary ^^^

Kinda glad it was drilled into me by my FIL to follow code and when it doubt ask for help or buy a book. I am still proud of the underground wiring job we did for some people who wanted to sell their house. Someone buried BX cable and obviously that wouldn't last. We used water tight conduit and ran I believe wire for A 50amp 110v sub in the garage.

The garage door opener and some 15 amp & 20 amp outlets. Trenched it all out as well. It was for lady who used to own space in the building. I did end up cutting my finger tip on the circular saw though...didn't even notice till I saw the red trail LOL.

He did building maintenance for 25yrs but back when you didn't need an engineering degree.
 
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