Hot Rod Camry

[dishdude]

I never understood moding base engines. If you're looking for power, trade it in for a V6.

I remember kids in HS would mod a 2.3 Mustang....lol

 

[B1974]

So, you think the difference on a four cylinder Camry will be noticeable?

It should tighten up the transmission shift points, raise the redline and may give a very slight (less then 5) HP gain. You would probably notice the difference in shifting more then anything else.

I've only used SCT and Superchips brand tuners and they work well, can't vouch for other brands.

 

[IndyIan]

I'm guessing it alters throttle tip-in and transmission shift points, since there's not much left to do to a n/a engine. Fuel and spark are already as good as they're going to get according to what kind of gas you're using, and air is decided by the throttle plate, which can be easily commanded to open wider, quicker, giving the sensation of a newly-eager engine They're mostly counting on your butt-dyno's wishful thinking.

Yeah, but even a minor adjustment on shift points at partial throttles could make a 10-20-30% increase in available torque, which would feel pretty significant in normal driving. And of course playing with the pedal to throttle opening map, can help the car feel peppy, and then disappointing when you actually use full throttle!

For sure, in terms of power at full throttle, a tune might be lucky to gain 3-4-5% depending on how conservative toyota was and how much the tuner is willing to risk.

Another nearly free way to gain some torque is to slightly under size the tires in diameter. 2-3% less diameter is felt as that much more torque at the wheels. I ran some 4.5% shorter sidewall summer tires on my Focus and it was noticeable when I took the tall skinny winters off. A couple minor changes can make someone more satisfied with a simple slow car, that is now fractionally less slow and more responsive...

I guess its all relative, unless you are driving a dual or triple motor electric wonder car, your cars drivetrain is "slow" and unresponsive compared to what is available...

 

[edyvw]

Yeah, but even a minor adjustment on shift points at partial throttles could make a 10-20-30% increase in available torque, which would feel pretty significant in normal driving. And of course playing with the pedal to throttle opening map, can help the car feel peppy, and then disappointing when you actually use full throttle!

For sure, in terms of power at full throttle, a tune might be lucky to gain 3-4-5% depending on how conservative toyota was and how much the tuner is willing to risk.

Another nearly free way to gain some torque is to slightly under size the tires in diameter. 2-3% less diameter is felt as that much more torque at the wheels. I ran some 4.5% shorter sidewall summer tires on my Focus and it was noticeable when I took the tall skinny winters off. A couple minor changes can make someone more satisfied with a simple slow car, that is now fractionally less slow and more responsive...

I guess its all relative, unless you are driving a dual or triple motor electric wonder car, your cars drivetrain is "slow" and unresponsive compared to what is available...

How do you mean available torque?

 

[IndyIan]

How do you mean available torque?

So with an automatic, if you are using 25% throttle to accelerate, and the transmission is tuned to maximize mileage, it would be shifting pretty early and running between 1800 and 2200 rpm, which doesn't produce much torque/acceleration. If the shift points at 25% throttle were moved up a couple hundred rpm, then the engine would be producing significantly more torque for your 25% throttle input, and would be accelerating quicker. Same amount of gas pedal input, but now feels a bit better, and perhaps doesn't have to do a downshift if you need a little bit more acceleration. This would make the car feel better in the hills with no additional power adders, just using what its got better.

 

[meep]

Remapping shift points, agreed, would be helpful. A but more usable juice on tap at 500+ rpm in any given scenario, without waiting for a downshift, will increase driver engagenemnt and usable power.

agree also, perhaps 5hp, maybe 8, could be eeked out with advanced timing and premium fuel, but frankly I wouldn’t want to do that to the Camry.

stiffer engine mounts would be nice - there’s a good bit of slop in them, but idle vibration is a thing.

once you change one thing…. Youll be changing another…

 

[Fabulous50s]

Shift points, and likely different geometry to the throttle plate relitive to the accelerator pedal...make it feel like a rice...er race car!

 

[wpod]

So, you think the difference on a four cylinder Camry will be noticeable?

With a strut bar yes !

 

[edyvw]

So with an automatic, if you are using 25% throttle to accelerate, and the transmission is tuned to maximize mileage, it would be shifting pretty early and running between 1800 and 2200 rpm, which doesn't produce much torque/acceleration. If the shift points at 25% throttle were moved up a couple hundred rpm, then the engine would be producing significantly more torque for your 25% throttle input, and would be accelerating quicker. Same amount of gas pedal input, but now feels a bit better, and perhaps doesn't have to do a downshift if you need a little bit more acceleration. This would make the car feel better in the hills with no additional power adders, just using what its got better.

Ok. I see where you going. Just wanted to make sure you are not implying ECU remap will increase actual torque by 10%.

 

[edyvw]

With a strut bar yes !

Nah. But wing on the trunk that could stabilize Boeing 777-9, might help.

 

[edyvw]

Remapping shift points, agreed, would be helpful. A but more usable juice on tap at 500+ rpm in any given scenario, without waiting for a downshift, will increase driver engagenemnt and usable power.

agree also, perhaps 5hp, maybe 8, could be eeked out with advanced timing and premium fuel, but frankly I wouldn’t want to do that to the Camry.

stiffer engine mounts would be nice - there’s a good bit of slop in them, but idle vibration is a thing.

once you change one thing…. Youll be changing another…

You can throw $15k into Camry, it will still be sloppy vehicle.
The chassis and suspension from beginning are no go for anything meaningful performance wise.
Car has its purpose. Performance is definitely not one.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Upgrading to a Group 4-5 transmission fluid along with a intake,header, exhaust combo will make it fun without too much. I like sway and strut bars too. I enjoy the sound and the few mpg that come with it. I get a lot of thumbs up that's it's deep sounding not raspy at all. Even the 2.5 Camry would be fun with the simple intake/exhaust setup.

 

[Revving2Redline]

You can throw $15k into Camry, it will still be sloppy vehicle.
The chassis and suspension from beginning are no go for anything meaningful performance wise.
Car has its purpose. Performance is definitely not one.

A sloppy car maybe, but it will have 300,000+ miles on it that the other usual performance cars won't come close to. Longevity is a performance factor. I enjoy seeing people tune what they drive and seeing a 500hp sports car makes no power/performance in a garage during the winter.

 

[OVERKILL]

A sloppy car maybe, but it will have 300,000+ miles on it that the other usual performance cars won't come close to. Longevity is a performance factor. I enjoy seeing people tune what they drive and seeing a 500hp sports car makes no power/performance in a garage during the winter.

https://www.motor1.com/news/301577/corvette-c5-300000-miles-video/

542,000 miles on a BMW M5:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40604651/highest-mileage-bmw-m5/

Here's another M5 with 300,000 miles:
https://www.m5board.com/threads/milestone-300-000-mile-2002-m5.378761/

And another:
https://bimmerlife.com/2019/10/19/400000-mile-m5-dyno-comparison/

You were saying?

Despite assertions to the contrary, high mileage is not reserved for the appliance crowd. It's quite achievable on performance-oriented cars, particularly German saloons, which will be more likely to be daily driven than something like a Corvette, Viper, Camaro or Shelby Mustang.

 

[edyvw]

A sloppy car maybe, but it will have 300,000+ miles on it that the other usual performance cars won't come close to. Longevity is a performance factor. I enjoy seeing people tune what they drive and seeing a 500hp sports car makes no power/performance in a garage during the winter.

Is that why they buy engines from BMW?
I daily my BMW, drive kids to school, take it to ski, and track.
Average Camry would literally fall apart doing that. And when I say fall apart, I mean break in half.

 

[racer12306]

For ANY gain, you need complex variable intake manifold in addition to ECU tune.

Note for fun...

on the 2001/2002 Dodge Neon R/T, they put a variable intake manifold. At a programmed RPM, 4000 or 4500 iirc, a set of butterflies would open inside of the manifold and make the intake manifold flow more in the upper RPM range.

 

[LouC]

This is a hot rod Camry

Yeah but it’s powered by a Hemi!

 

[Fabulous50s]

Let's seriously not get into a pissing contest about a BMW vs Camry.... honestly guys? They both have theor place, and it takes work to make a Camry fast, and it takes work for a Bimmer to last that long.

I'm VERY well versed in German cars, and the long term maintenance to make one last is much higher than a Camry. Plastic coolant stuff...injector replacement (for DI engines) and the list goes on and on. But I love them too!

 

[edyvw]

Let's seriously not get into a pissing contest about a BMW vs Camry.... honestly guys? They both have theor place, and it takes work to make a Camry fast, and it takes work for a Bimmer to last that long.

I'm VERY well versed in German cars, and the long term maintenance to make one last is much higher than a Camry. Plastic coolant stuff...injector replacement (for DI engines) and the list goes on and on. But I love them too!

The reason why Camry is popular is, well, it is refrigerator. You don’t upgrade your refrigerator in the house. You don’t come and say: let me tune up compressor so it cools better.
If one can live with it that, cool. But once things go route: I will make my Camry as fast as BMW, Subaru STi etc. you come to realization very fast that it is refrigerator.

By the way, my BMW had less maintenance expenses than my Toyota minivan. So, there is that.

 

[Fabulous50s]

The reason why Camry is popular is, well, it is refrigerator. You don’t upgrade your refrigerator in the house. You don’t come and say: let me tune up compressor so it cools better.
If one can live with it that, cool. But once things go route: I will make my Camry as fast as BMW, Subaru STi etc. you come to realization very fast that it is refrigerator.

By the way, my BMW had less maintenance expenses than my Toyota minivan. So, there is that.

Japanese minivans have never gone that well. But Japanese sedans are very low cost on maintenance. I think that overall the weight on the turd shaped vans is just too much stress on the engines and transaxles.

Honda and Toyota vans have always been behind their sedans.