Honey, they shrunk my... filter?

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Just picked up a couple FRAM Ultra's for the RAM and discovered that they are seriously downsized from the previous filter the 5.7L called for as well as the current 6 4L filter

One of these with M1 EP 0w-20 are going in the truck tomorrow, it's got ~1,000Km on it now, so time to flush out the break-in junk.


You think that's bad, you should see the filters they spec for my Mazda. The 6607 is used in a lot of motorcycles, it's downright tiny.

 

[StevieC]

The smallest filter I have seen was on my aunts Nissan. It looked like a fuel filter.

 

[Skippy722]

I remember some of the Durango guys on Facebook pointing this out as well. Some have gone back to the bigger filter no problem, most runnthe smaller one.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Our longest lasting engine ever in service here went nearly half a million miles on those teensy filters, and was changed strictly via OLM. Obviously there are choices, but the small filter seems to be adequate

 

[4WD]

Same with BiL's 400k 5.3L … some little MO bulk filter at the Mobil 1 quick lube …

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by StevieC
The smallest filter I have seen was on my aunts Nissan. It looked like a fuel filter.


HaHa … And the fuel filter for my F60 boat motor looks like it came from a D398 …
(so I ran it 5 years) …

 

[Bill_W]

I have to ask if a smaller filter is by design and engineered for a reason is for the better. If the new one is smaller, the least thing on my mind is cost savings as for everyone out there the knee jerk answer is smaller is not good. (But is it?)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Bill_W
I have to ask if a smaller filter is by design and engineered for a reason is for the better. If the new one is smaller, the least thing on my mind is cost savings as for everyone out there the knee jerk answer is smaller is not good. (But is it?)


It's for the better of less cost to make, which means more profit for the manufacturer.

There's really no technical reason a smaller filter would be better. And there's a reason that many filter makers reference their largest filter when testing and reporting an efficiency spec - because the larger filter gives a better efficiency. That's been discussed many times.

 

[Bill_W]

Yah... But Fram lives in the aftermarket world where the customer lives. The car manufacturer lives in the I know better than you world and can do what they want. When Fram makes a change I can only think it is for the better cause the customer will perceive smaller is not good. Fram will charge whatever they want for any model they make. New gotta be improved, we just perceive as not improved.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Bill_W
Yah... But Fram lives in the aftermarket world where the customer lives. The car manufacturer lives in the I know better than you world and can do what they want. When Fram makes a change I can only think it is for the better cause the customer will perceive smaller is not good. Fram will charge whatever they want for any model they make. New gotta be improved, we just perceive as not improved.


FRAM did not make this change, FCA did. The reason, as noted in the thread, was due to the switch to Electric Power Steering, for which the gearbox assembly is directly below the oil cooler where the filter screws on. This makes it a bit tight for the big filter, so they switched to this reduced size one.

 

[Bill_W]

Thanks for the reply...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Bill_W
Yah... But Fram lives in the aftermarket world where the customer lives. The car manufacturer lives in the I know better than you world and can do what they want. When Fram makes a change I can only think it is for the better cause the customer will perceive smaller is not good. Fram will charge whatever they want for any model they make. New gotta be improved, we just perceive as not improved.


If you've read what Motorking (Jay) has posted in the last couple days, Fram makes changes due to what the automakers require. Fram (and other big name filter makers) aren't doing it all based on what they think it should be.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Also, another reason why some of these filter applications are going smaller is because of what Motorking said about engines being cleaner these days. So if they can have one smaller filter that fits all the cars that the longer version fit too, then they just consolidated their product line which makes for less manufacturing equipment, etc that would be required to make a short and long version of basically the same oil filter.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by StevieC
The smallest filter I have seen was on my aunts Nissan. It looked like a fuel filter.


That may well be the 6607, too. I know a lot of Nissan and Infiniti models run it.

FWIW, I don't worry much. The 6607 is specced on a lot of engines that have very good reputations for reliability, so it's not a problem. A lot of Nissan VQs use it, IIRC, and that's arguably the best V6 ever made. If it's good enough for those, it's good enough for my Mazda.

 

[Garak]

I agree, as galling as a small filter seems to be at times. My G37 has a little filter, like what StevieC saw. I'd like an FL-1A on there, ideally. That being said, given how little debris engines really give off, do I really need to be throwing out giant filters that haven't even approached anywhere near their holding capacity? Yes, I could use a filter for more than one oil change interval, but I'm stubborn and the easier solution is simply a much smaller filter that still will outlast the interval by a significant margin.

 

[BigMoneyGrip]

I understand your concern about filter size. Imagine my shock when I found out that my Titan uses the same filter as my Yamaha Rhino!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by BigMoneyGrip
I understand your concern about filter size. Imagine my shock when I found out that my Titan uses the same filter as my Yamaha Rhino!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by BigMoneyGrip
I understand your concern about filter size. Imagine my shock when I found out that my Titan uses the same filter as my Yamaha Rhino!

Use Wix and you'll find they separated the lines to ease that concern.

I think it was for other reasons (base plate design) but there's that added benefit.