Honda's recommended OFCI too long?

[element]

I'm still wrestling with this issue. Honda is recommending oil filter change every other oil change. This means 10k OFCI under SEVERE condition and 20k OFCI under normal condition.

Has there been any study done (scientific or simply cutting one open) on the filter's capability to deal with this interval? I thought they start bypassing at 3k miles or so.

What are the pros and cons of going with changing every OCI and changing every other OCI?

Cons of changing every OCI:
1. cost (which actually is not an issue to me)
2. filter changed when it's actually effective??? thoughts on this one given the mileage (5k severe or 10k normal)

Pros???

Please share your thoughs

 

[Bill Kapaun]

In a brand new, (meaning CLEAN) engine, a filter shouldn't be clogged enough to go into bypass mode.

I ASSume Honda still has a time interval (like 6 months?) that requires oil/filter changes.
If this is the case, a filter would be changed at least once per year or 20k miles.

When you read the definition of "Severe" service, most any car will encounter at least "some". during its OCI.

A lot of these same arguments were made when cars went from 1000 mile OCI's to 2000! (I was there!)

 

[XS650]

Until a few people instrument their filters and determine when thay are actually bypassing, the amount of time filters spend in bypass will reamian a big mnystery.

Also remember that when a full flow filter "bypasses" it hs only degreade itself to a very high flow, relatively coarse filtration bypass filter, it doesn't stop filtering.

The filters I've cut open after 6,000 miles in clean running engines have virtually no eyeball visible crud in them. They always look like they would have been good to go for at least one more change interval.

 

[Whimsey]

Unless your engine was full of cr*p and you ran an autorx cleaning or some other cleaning oil or chemical your filter should not become clogged enough to go into bypass in say 5,000-7,500 miles. This presumes you are using a quality oil filter. I believe the other biggest problem with oil filters is the anti drain back valve leaking. The usual nitrile adbv hardens and stop functioning MUCH sooner than the silicone adbv. I would be very leary of using any standard oil filter 10,000 miles no less 20,000 miles

. It'll probably get you through the warranty period of 36,000 miles but I wouldn't want to own the vehicle after that. Oil filters are cheap. Even if you take it to the dealer I'd gladly pay for a new filter with each oil change. Plus I'd be hard pressed to go with a 10,000 mile OCI. Although there was a Honda 4cyl recently that went about 7400 miles on Pennzoil 5W-20 and the used oil analysis was real good!

Whimsey

 

[element]

You are correct, Bill. Honda recommends 6 months OCI and 1 year OFCI under severe condition. Under normal condition, the longest time interval for both OCI and OFCI is 1 year.

XS650 -- thanks for the info. Good to know that some of these filters look good @ 6k.

I hope the rubber on these filter don't degrade -- I just realize I have an 8 yr supply -- I may have to change it every OCI just to run my supply down

 

[element]

Whimsey, as I stated in my original post, I wasn't concerned with cost. I was more concerned with if there is any negative drawback to changing an oil filter too early.

I personally don't think there's any harm in changing an oil filter often, but who knows, perhaps I was missing something.

And yes, I'm aware of the bolt stripping risk and the Honda fire risk (filter dripping oil on hot manifold), but other than those two and waste of money -- are there any other drawback?

BTW, thanks Whimsey

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by element:


I hope the rubber on these filter don't degrade -- I just realize I have an 8 yr supply -- I may have to change it every OCI just to run my supply down

---

Keep them in a relatively cool place, like in your house if your garage is an oven in the afternoon. Putting them in zip lock freezer bags could help too. That should keep the ozone out. I've never been able to bring myself to go two OCI on one filter. Once I have the oil change stuff out and have to deal with dirty oil, it's not much extra effort to change the filter. That also leaves less old oil in the engine.

 

[nicholas]

i live in ontario, and in the summer time i change all the oil filters on my cars, every other oil change..
but in the winter time, i change it for every OCI...
the colder oil on start up can be much harder on and oil and engine wear metals.

last year it was -40c on many occasions.....

6 years and 20 different cars i have done this with no problem what so ever on any oil system..
most of us here are a little crazy when it comes to engine maint.

later

 

[Farticus]

Why not just change the filter every time? I mean, a filter may cost 5 bucks, it's just cheap insurance.

 

[TC]

If Honda claims that filter change-out every other service is sufficient, I personally have no reason to doubt that. Assuming that the components are up-to-snuff for extended service (longevity of the ADBV rubber and bypass valve spring, etc.), it all comes down to total media area and anticipated particulate load. No rocket science, really -- I guess they've determined that the 90-120 sq in of media often found in Honda OEM filters (both Honda and aftermarket brands) is sufficient for changes at every other service.

That said, it's easy to find brand name filters on sale for as little as $2. Combined with having to "dump" a third-quart of dirty oil back into the engine (when changing oil but not filter), I can't bring myself to NOT change the filter at every service.

 

[crossbow]

Maybe its decisions like these which have caused honda's reliability rating to start spiraling downward in recent years.

There seems to be some sort of insane overall industry push for making it appear that a car requires less maintance. Extended OCI's, crazy filter changes, no transmission, power steering, or coolant changes till 100k+ etc.

Someone should really do a study comparing the cost savings prior to these type of decisions over the course of a vehicles life, vs the previous standard type fluid intervals a few years prior.

There are so many lawsuits and claims flying around from all these manufacturers and their crazy oci's. Mercedes, bmw, VW, audi...and here everyone just seems to fight over 20 vs 30 wt oils

.

 

[heyheylbj]

element:

If you have a Civic EX, there was a misprint in some of the manuals that recommends the suspicious 10K severe service change. The guys at the stealership told me it was supposed to be half that for sever, so 5K. I'm not sure if it affects other Honda models. If you do have a civic, I should point you to 7thgencivic.com which has a pretty nice repository of stuff, although the rice rocket crowd that congregates there gets me a little teed at times.

 

[Matt89]

quote:

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Someone should really do a study comparing the cost savings prior to these type of decisions over the course of a vehicles life, vs the previous standard type fluid intervals a few years prior.

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Amen. But too many people rely on the 'standard' intervals for their livelihood or self-esteem so progress will be slow.

I think if someone invented a car that could truly go 250K miles with NO fluid changes and a sealed engine bay ("just add gas") it would be a total failure.

 

[Cyprs]

Top grade oil plus filter is minimal investment in comparison to $65.00 per hour labor & parts in garages, long OCI or skipping filter changes is not worth it to me. Only one hour in dealership garage equals two synthetic oil changes and 2 dealership filters doing OCI myself every 5000Km or 3000 miles. Minimal investment to continue keeping car out of the garage or having to buy another car prematurely. The fuel economy is so great on these cars that I dont consider the syn oil or filter every 5000kms an expense,it is peace of mind.

Cyprs