Has anyone turned up a product data sheet for Honda Z1? I found one posted here on the Honda power steering fluid and it looks like a strange formulation. I wonder if Z1 is that strange and it would be interesting to compare the specs. Nothing here on BITOG that I could find and about a half hour Googling yielded nothing but a bevy of universal ATFs claiming to be compatible with Z1.
Honda Z1 Product Data Sheet
- Thread starter Jim Allen
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People have discussed the VOA of ATF-Z1 in the past, but I've failed to find it. Certainly not using the search function on this site, but nothing through google either.
There was once a VOA posted here, I saw it, but it has disappeared. I wish I had printed it out when I had the chance. I was hoping for a factory product data sheet to turn up.
Our best bet is that the person who originally posted the VOA here years ago, assuming he's still here, would repost the info. Mny of us would be eternally grateful. I'm not holding my breath that Honda will release any info.
Our best bet is that the person who originally posted the VOA here years ago, assuming he's still here, would repost the info. Mny of us would be eternally grateful. I'm not holding my breath that Honda will release any info.
If I may ask, why are you looking for the information..curiosity? I've read enough testimony regarding it to determine that a different ATF must be substituted. Honda trans fluids tend to be less viscous. Amsoil is probably the best replacement although I'm curious about the new fluid from M1. It seems to be on the heavier end though.
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
There was once a VOA posted here, I saw it, but it has disappeared. I wish I had printed it out when I had the chance. I was hoping for a factory product data sheet to turn up.
Our best bet is that the person who originally posted the VOA here years ago, assuming he's still here, would repost the info. Mny of us would be eternally grateful. I'm not holding my breath that Honda will release any info.
It is a weird looking formulation. I don't know if I posted an analysis before but I do have one.
KV 100C 7.2cSt
KV 40C 29.5
BV -40C 5,500
B 312 ppm
Ca 354 ppm
Mg 225 ppm
P 2 ppm
Si 7 ppm
S 775 ppm
Zn 368 ppm
There was once a VOA posted here, I saw it, but it has disappeared. I wish I had printed it out when I had the chance. I was hoping for a factory product data sheet to turn up.
Our best bet is that the person who originally posted the VOA here years ago, assuming he's still here, would repost the info. Mny of us would be eternally grateful. I'm not holding my breath that Honda will release any info.
It is a weird looking formulation. I don't know if I posted an analysis before but I do have one.
KV 100C 7.2cSt
KV 40C 29.5
BV -40C 5,500
B 312 ppm
Ca 354 ppm
Mg 225 ppm
P 2 ppm
Si 7 ppm
S 775 ppm
Zn 368 ppm
Whitewolf: Yet again, you come through for us! Many thanks. The one I recall was similar, but I believe it also had the VI listed.
vinu_neuro: I will use up my stash of Z1 in the next change and now that the car is long outta warranty, including the extended one they granted (2000 Accord V6, will soon turn 70K), I want to look into other alternatives. I may stick with Z1 but if I change, it will be an educated decision and I will have done my due diligence. The trans has worked perfectly. Heck, the car has been trouble free! Still running the original brakes, and Michelin tires. One battery. One warranty repair, the EGR thing, early on.
vinu_neuro: I will use up my stash of Z1 in the next change and now that the car is long outta warranty, including the extended one they granted (2000 Accord V6, will soon turn 70K), I want to look into other alternatives. I may stick with Z1 but if I change, it will be an educated decision and I will have done my due diligence. The trans has worked perfectly. Heck, the car has been trouble free! Still running the original brakes, and Michelin tires. One battery. One warranty repair, the EGR thing, early on.
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No problem.
The VI on new oil wouldn't be much help because it is not a very shear stable fluid. The potentially confusing thing for people trying to look into used oil analysis is that, since this fluid is also not very stable in oxidation, the KV increase resulting from thermal degradation conceals the shear issue.
Pleased to help.
The VI on new oil wouldn't be much help because it is not a very shear stable fluid. The potentially confusing thing for people trying to look into used oil analysis is that, since this fluid is also not very stable in oxidation, the KV increase resulting from thermal degradation conceals the shear issue.
Pleased to help.
With a vehicle out of warranty, is there any reason to run this fluid? It's nearly the same price as Amsoil now, and would most likely have to be run in much tighter oci's.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
With a vehicle out of warranty, is there any reason to run this fluid? It's nearly the same price as Amsoil now, and would most likely have to be run in much tighter oci's.
I cannot answer your question because I don't know the specific fluid performance requirements for the Honda AT products.
With a vehicle out of warranty, is there any reason to run this fluid? It's nearly the same price as Amsoil now, and would most likely have to be run in much tighter oci's.
I cannot answer your question because I don't know the specific fluid performance requirements for the Honda AT products.
MolaKule
Staff member
Besides the VOA that Molakule already posted, I had two used oil analysis on both my cars -
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/atf-z1-99-accord-4cyl-95000-miles.70258/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
and some others ...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
Not sure how/where you are searching but there is a seperate forum for UOA of trans,psf and other fluids. And the site's search doesn't work for any words that are 3 letters or less. So a search for "Z1" wont work. Instead search in that forum for Honda or names of honda models - like accord, civic, etc... you will find quite a few.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/atf-z1-99-accord-4cyl-95000-miles.70258/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
and some others ...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/uoa-honda-atf-z1-2001-acura-mdx.69142/
Not sure how/where you are searching but there is a seperate forum for UOA of trans,psf and other fluids. And the site's search doesn't work for any words that are 3 letters or less. So a search for "Z1" wont work. Instead search in that forum for Honda or names of honda models - like accord, civic, etc... you will find quite a few.
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Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
There was once a VOA posted here, I saw it, but it has disappeared. I wish I had printed it out when I had the chance. I was hoping for a factory product data sheet to turn up.
Our best bet is that the person who originally posted the VOA here years ago, assuming he's still here, would repost the info. Mny of us would be eternally grateful. I'm not holding my breath that Honda will release any info.
It is a weird looking formulation. I don't know if I posted an analysis before but I do have one.
KV 100C 7.2cSt
KV 40C 29.5
BV -40C 5,500
B 312 ppm
Ca 354 ppm
Mg 225 ppm
P 2 ppm
Si 7 ppm
S 775 ppm
Zn 368 ppm
I know of a guy with a supercharged TL with well over 100,000 miles on the original transmission and over half of the miles with the blower. He used half Z1 and half Amsoil ATF. I'm wondering if the unique amount of additives in the Z1 coupled with a good base oil like Amsoil is why his lasted so long under high stress.
Any merit to that or was it just luck?
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
There was once a VOA posted here, I saw it, but it has disappeared. I wish I had printed it out when I had the chance. I was hoping for a factory product data sheet to turn up.
Our best bet is that the person who originally posted the VOA here years ago, assuming he's still here, would repost the info. Mny of us would be eternally grateful. I'm not holding my breath that Honda will release any info.
It is a weird looking formulation. I don't know if I posted an analysis before but I do have one.
KV 100C 7.2cSt
KV 40C 29.5
BV -40C 5,500
B 312 ppm
Ca 354 ppm
Mg 225 ppm
P 2 ppm
Si 7 ppm
S 775 ppm
Zn 368 ppm
I know of a guy with a supercharged TL with well over 100,000 miles on the original transmission and over half of the miles with the blower. He used half Z1 and half Amsoil ATF. I'm wondering if the unique amount of additives in the Z1 coupled with a good base oil like Amsoil is why his lasted so long under high stress.
Any merit to that or was it just luck?
Do we have any proof that any Honda transmissions have failed with a nearly 100% Amsoil fill?
Half and half isn't going to be a synergy, just a compromise one way or the other.
Half and half isn't going to be a synergy, just a compromise one way or the other.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
With a vehicle out of warranty, is there any reason to run this fluid? It's nearly the same price as Amsoil now, and would most likely have to be run in much tighter oci's.
Most likely there's no reason to run the Z1. I bought a case and did so initially because Honda was "kind" enough to extend the warranty on the trans to 7 years/100K. Wanted to make sure I could avail myself of it if need be. Did a full change once and drain & fill every 15K or so since. Want to use up the last of the stash before switching. Next OC, it will be gone and I'll have 15K to make up my mind.
I just figure the due diligence is needed because this is such an unusual formulation. Regarding a new oil, much of what I have seen on BITOG and around is anecdotal, "I tried it and it worked" kinda stuff. The documentation showing Z1 is a so-so ATF is pretty compelling. I want to compare VOAs and PDS from other ATFs. Then I'd like to try and understand (as much as a layman like me can anyway) why Honda did what they did and how or whether another formulation can replace it.
Whitewolf and Mola: Your contributions to this would be appreciated... in the sense of whether the unusual formulation is designed to cover a poor base oil or fix a poor transmission. In other words, what ingredients, and their amounts, are important and what are bandaids that would be unnecessary with a better oil.
youdontwannaknow: Thanks for posting the VOA. I don't know why I couldn't find the blessed thing. I know all the search tricks but I must have been glazed over.
In the end, whichever way it turns out, it's probably going to be much ado over not much but at least I'll have made an informed decision. And it will be documented a little more for others who follow.
With a vehicle out of warranty, is there any reason to run this fluid? It's nearly the same price as Amsoil now, and would most likely have to be run in much tighter oci's.
Most likely there's no reason to run the Z1. I bought a case and did so initially because Honda was "kind" enough to extend the warranty on the trans to 7 years/100K. Wanted to make sure I could avail myself of it if need be. Did a full change once and drain & fill every 15K or so since. Want to use up the last of the stash before switching. Next OC, it will be gone and I'll have 15K to make up my mind.
I just figure the due diligence is needed because this is such an unusual formulation. Regarding a new oil, much of what I have seen on BITOG and around is anecdotal, "I tried it and it worked" kinda stuff. The documentation showing Z1 is a so-so ATF is pretty compelling. I want to compare VOAs and PDS from other ATFs. Then I'd like to try and understand (as much as a layman like me can anyway) why Honda did what they did and how or whether another formulation can replace it.
Whitewolf and Mola: Your contributions to this would be appreciated... in the sense of whether the unusual formulation is designed to cover a poor base oil or fix a poor transmission. In other words, what ingredients, and their amounts, are important and what are bandaids that would be unnecessary with a better oil.
youdontwannaknow: Thanks for posting the VOA. I don't know why I couldn't find the blessed thing. I know all the search tricks but I must have been glazed over.
In the end, whichever way it turns out, it's probably going to be much ado over not much but at least I'll have made an informed decision. And it will be documented a little more for others who follow.
Is Mobil 1 ATF OK to use...
If you have any doubts go OEM
Anyone know the details of Mercon SP and Dexron VI? I'd really like to know why Mobil 1 has separate fluids for those specs while Amsoil uses their Universal ATF to cover those two also.
Jim, here's a copy of my post from the other thread:
I'm inclined to go with Amsoil based on what I understand about Dexron VI and Mercon SP.
Anyone is welcome to correct any misinformation or bad logic in this post. According to the Amsoil site, it seems that the main requirements brought forth with GM VI are greater oxidative and shear stability, foam performance and protection against pitting.
While "MERCON® V specification that requires improved anti-oxidation, antiwear and anti-shudder properties. Ford also introduced its MERCON® SP specification in 2004. Designed for high torque sixspeed transmissions, MERCON SP fluids have lower viscosity requirements and more stringent cold-temperature Brookfield viscosity requirements."
M1 has separate fluids for these two specs while Amsoil uses their universal ATF for those two in addition to all the OEM compatibilities. So what I surmise is that even those that don't have GM or Ford vehicles get the benefits of those stricter specs when Amsoil makes their universal atf meet them. Amsoil's ATF has a higher flash point and lower cold viscosity than M1 Synthetic ATF; much like M1's Dexron VI fluid. It's an easy choice to go with Amsoil atf imo, esp since so many people have had such success with it.
I'm inclined to go with Amsoil based on what I understand about Dexron VI and Mercon SP.
Anyone is welcome to correct any misinformation or bad logic in this post. According to the Amsoil site, it seems that the main requirements brought forth with GM VI are greater oxidative and shear stability, foam performance and protection against pitting.
While "MERCON® V specification that requires improved anti-oxidation, antiwear and anti-shudder properties. Ford also introduced its MERCON® SP specification in 2004. Designed for high torque sixspeed transmissions, MERCON SP fluids have lower viscosity requirements and more stringent cold-temperature Brookfield viscosity requirements."
M1 has separate fluids for these two specs while Amsoil uses their universal ATF for those two in addition to all the OEM compatibilities. So what I surmise is that even those that don't have GM or Ford vehicles get the benefits of those stricter specs when Amsoil makes their universal atf meet them. Amsoil's ATF has a higher flash point and lower cold viscosity than M1 Synthetic ATF; much like M1's Dexron VI fluid. It's an easy choice to go with Amsoil atf imo, esp since so many people have had such success with it.
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