Honda Z1 ATF 2004 Odyssey 45,000

TrailRunner · Jan 16, 2007

Here is my UOA for Honda Z1 Tranny. Up to this point I have done one drain and fill. (That's a 40% fluid replacement.) I am now going to do a 100% replacement. I'm unsure of what to replace it with at this juncture. Oddly, there is a good deal of moisture in the ATF. I don't know why.

Dan

Iron 128
Copper 21
Tin 0
Lead 1
Chromium 1
Nickel 1
Titanium 0
Silver 0
Calcium 303
Magnesium 250
Zinc 429
Phosphorus 14
Barium 10
Molybdenum 0
Antimony 5
Silicon 21
Sodium 9
Boron 353
Potassium 0
Vanadium 0
TAN 0.70
Flashpoint 335
Nit rat ion 9
Water (KF - ppm) 602
TBN 4.1
Soot 0
Viscosity Index 177
Sulfate Byproducts 45

Pablo · Jan 16, 2007

What was the viscosity?

The water seems weird.

I use Amsoil ATF in my Ody:

Amsoil ATF

benjamming · Jan 16, 2007

no aluminum result?

TrailRunner · Jan 17, 2007

I'm trying to get a hold of the dealer to find out about the moisture. I am not sure why the whole report didn't copy.

aluminum was 85
viscosity was
(40C) 23.7
(100C) 5.4

benjamming · Jan 17, 2007

If you really want to understand the report, I would suggest Terry Dyson. The Z1 UOA can be hard to "read".

Are you having tranny problems of any kind?
Does the van have a serviceable filter?
Why are you wanting to stop using the Z1 fluid?

unDummy · Jan 17, 2007

Fluid sheared down a lot. 5.4 is thinner then SP, WS, or VI ATF's.

A full flush and more frequent drain refills is my recommendation.

Water seems normal enough. Could be sampling method or simple condensation. I wouldn't worry about it.

No TAN on the fluid?

The Critic · Jan 17, 2007

That's very little moisture...probably normal.

Wear seems to be unaffected so I'd say the viscosity is OK and isn't harming anything.

TAN is 0.7, so the fluid still has PLENTY of life left.

benjamming · Jan 17, 2007

The fluid itself probably does have quite a bit of life left in it, but it needs to be changed more often IMHO, like undummy said. That's a lot of iron. Then again this is the factory fill, correct? I don't remember the Odyssey setting any long-life records with their tranny either.

What lab did the analysis?

TrailRunner · Jan 17, 2007

I am using Terry Dyson. He's been a great help. The moisture level is from a highly accurate test. I spoke to my Honda service manager, who spoke to the district manager. They would like me to go another 6 months and retest the fluid. No surprise there.

The Critic · Jan 18, 2007

Quote:

The fluid itself probably does have quite a bit of life left in it, but it needs to be changed more often IMHO, like undummy said. That's a lot of iron. Then again this is the factory fill, correct? I don't remember the Odyssey setting any long-life records with their tranny either.

What lab did the analysis?

Water, KF, 602 ppm = 0.0602% What's the big deal?

128ppm isn't that much Iron. It's routinely normal for transmission UOAs to have several hundred ppm of Iron in them and still be considered OK. If having 100+ ppm was really that detrimental to transmission life, wouldn't Honda require a change at every oil change?

benjamming · Jan 18, 2007

Honda's recommended OCI for their transmission & longevity are about as close together as me and a million bucks. The '98-02 Accord 4-speed went through a lot & still the same OCI. The same thing on the Acura 5-speed.
But then again, maybe the iron really isn't important & fluid changes won't help one bit. I really

but wish I did since I have an '02 4-speed.

It does sound like the OP is getting good help i.e. Terry.

The Critic · Jan 19, 2007

Quote:

Honda's recommended OCI for their transmission & longevity are about as close together as me and a million bucks. The '98-02 Accord 4-speed went through a lot & still the same OCI. The same thing on the Acura 5-speed.
But then again, maybe the iron really isn't important & fluid changes won't help one bit. I really

but wish I did since I have an '02 4-speed.

It does sound like the OP is getting good help i.e. Terry.

Actually, the Odyssey carries a different service interval with Z1 than the passenger cars.

The Odyssey calls for a drain and refill @ 30k miles under severe service, and 45k miles under normal service. Ditto for the MDX.

Even with the new Maintenance Minder system on the 3rd generation Odysseys, the ATF is needing to be serviced every 40k or so.

On the 2G TL with the "fixed" interval system, service intervals were 60k under severe service (initial) and 120k under normal. In the 3G TL, the Maintenance Minder is requiring one every 60-65k miles for most people.

Of course, the Maintenance Minder does not have an actual fluid life monitor in ANY of these vehicles aside from the 2006 Civic, but this shows that Honda is beginning to secretly shorten the OCIs of the ATF in many of its newer passenger cars.

Pablo · Jan 19, 2007

Quote:

Water, KF, 602 ppm = 0.0602% What's the big deal?

It's not a huge deal, but 602ppm H2O in a closed system is not exactly normal. I'll bet it's from sampling though and wouldn't sweat BB's.

TrailRunner · Jan 20, 2007

Honda is pretty good about taking care of problems outside of warranty. My transmission has not failed, but is making a slight whine. I'd prefer to use something I feel is better than Z1 and still meets DexronIII. I'm trying to figure out if Honda will have a problem if I do not stay with Honda Z1 ATF. (This assumes that I have a failure before 100K miles.)

Take Care,

DC

Mr Nice · Jan 20, 2007

Is the black rubber 'vent tube' properly attached to the trans ??

VH45DE · Jan 21, 2007

Quote:

Here is my UOA for Honda Z1 Tranny. Up to this point I have done one drain and fill. (That's a 40% fluid replacement.) I am now going to do a 100% replacement. I'm unsure of what to replace it with at this juncture.

I'd stick with the Z1 for now. yeah its expensive, yeah it's nothing special, but you are still in warranty and following manufacturers recommendations (keep those Z1 receipts) will help your case when it goes. I'm also not convinced an alternate fluid will prolong the life of the trans (unless it can handle much higher temps without oxidation). I am COMPLETELY convinced that heat is the enemy of this trans and the factory system is waaaaayy underdesigned.

Jim 5 · Mar 21, 2007

Does anyone know how to fill an Acura 3.2TL auto trans with fluid after it has had the 2nd gear oil jet kit installed by the dealer into the fill hole? I think we are talking about essentially the same transmission here.

Do you just remove the jet kit, or is there something more complicated to do?

benjamming · Mar 21, 2007

Fill through the dipstick.

The Critic · Mar 21, 2007

Quote:

Does anyone know how to fill an Acura 3.2TL auto trans with fluid after it has had the 2nd gear oil jet kit installed by the dealer into the fill hole? I think we are talking about essentially the same transmission here.

Do you just remove the jet kit, or is there something more complicated to do?

The oil jet bracket is held down by a 12mm long bolt. Remove the bolt, and the oil jet lifts right out. You'll have a hollow fill bolt in sight. Fill through there, or if desired, remove the hollow bolt with a 24mm.

ccs v2.0 · Mar 21, 2007

You can also do it by removing the oil jet hose from the jet barb and hooking up your tubing to it. IIRC, it's 3/8" I.D.

Honda Z1 ATF 2004 Odyssey 45,000

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