Honda oil with no API symbol

Pennzoil motor oil
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theconcerned

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Hi,

I apologize if this has been addressed, but I'm a brand-new user and find it a little difficult to navigate this site.

I bought some oil today while I was at the Honda dealer -- the cost was basically the same and I've always wanted to try "genuine" Honda oil. Anyway, there's no API certification doughnut on it. It says right in the owner's manual for my vehicle (2006 Odyssey) to "always use a premium-grade 5W-20 detergent oil displaying the API Certification Seal." Honda's own oil does not have this requirement.

The oil I bought is Honda Genuine Engine Oil 5W-20, and it says on the back "meets API SN requirements for gasoline engines." Can anyone explain why the API seal is not on the bottle? I'm guessing it's fine to use . . . right? Thanks.
 
Maybe they never paid to get the oil certified, but are willing to vouch for the mact that it meets or exceeds SN standards?
 
That's also an issue with motorcycle oil. There is no API standard for motorcycle oils. Just a promise that they meet some standard. But the sellers don't have a problem charging big $$$ for their oil.,,
 
Honda engine oils in the USA and Canada are all licensed under the API and are currently certified until January 4, 2012 when renewal is due.

So dont worry be happy
19.gif


Welcome to BITOG!
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Honda engine oils in the USA and Canada are all licensed under the API and are currently certified until January 4, 2012 when renewal is due.

So dont worry be happy
19.gif


Welcome to BITOG!


Thanks for your replies. Here's a link that shows the bottle that I've got, and as you can see there's no starburst symbol (the oil is at the top of this link page): Oil It's made here in Canada.

My major two questions, plainly, are: 1) if it meets the criteria, like you stated, then why is there no symbol? And 2) this oil is, for sure, fine to use? Thanks again, I really appreciate the help. I'm obviously not an expert here. It's just so weird, because every bottle of oil I've ever bought has had that symbol.
 
Yeah, they are good to use. They are Honda oil and you buy it from a Honda dealer so it is authentic Honda oil. If your engine failed because of low quality Honda oil then Honda will repair/replace the engine at their expense.
 
Originally Posted By: theconcerned
My major two questions, plainly, are: 1) if it meets the criteria, like you stated, then why is there no symbol? And 2) this oil is, for sure, fine to use? Thanks again, I really appreciate the help. I'm obviously not an expert here. It's just so weird, because every bottle of oil I've ever bought has had that symbol.


That's kind of odd, but there are explanations as to why it's either certified yet not labeled, or simply not certified. If it's certified yet not labeled, it could simply be a printing oversight and Honda decided not to worry about it. After all, it's sold at the dealership and people with Honda's buying Honda oil will automatically expect it to be approved for Honda vehicles.

Others have indicated that it is certified. If it weren't, hypothetically, then Honda didn't want to pay the licensing fees or they're relying on some internal specification. I have seen manuals that have a recommendation something like, Genuine XXX oil or an oil of Xw-XX viscosity with SM or better in the API donut and the energy conserving Starburst. So, by that reading, the genuine oil would be covered for that vehicle even if it didn't have API/ILSAC certification.

It will be safe to use. Lacking the certification marks would be a bigger deal for an oil that's marketed in normal retail channels. Then again, as per the PQIA threads, we do see some people buying some very strange oil.
 
Originally Posted By: theconcerned
Hi,

I apologize if this has been addressed, but I'm a brand-new user and find it a little difficult to navigate this site.

I bought some oil today while I was at the Honda dealer -- the cost was basically the same and I've always wanted to try "genuine" Honda oil. Anyway, there's no API certification doughnut on it. It says right in the owner's manual for my vehicle (2006 Odyssey) to "always use a premium-grade 5W-20 detergent oil displaying the API Certification Seal." Honda's own oil does not have this requirement.

The oil I bought is Honda Genuine Engine Oil 5W-20, and it says on the back "meets API SN requirements for gasoline engines." Can anyone explain why the API seal is not on the bottle? I'm guessing it's fine to use . . . right? Thanks.


Ask your dealer where you bought it ....
 
Originally Posted By: theconcerned

My major two questions, plainly, are: 1) if it meets the criteria, like you stated, then why is there no symbol? And 2) this oil is, for sure, fine to use? Thanks again, I really appreciate the help. I'm obviously not an expert here. It's just so weird, because every bottle of oil I've ever bought has had that symbol.


I can't say for sure that it does or does not meet the specification. Everyone else seems in agreement that it is likely either an oversight or maybe HONDA didn't want to pay the licencing fees. This sometimes happens with private labeled dealer branded oil because even if it is say a petro-canada oil (although I doubt it is) then HONDA would still have to licence the oil as if it was their own formula (the API fees are the same).

It is possible that the oil meets the requirements for Honda engines without meeting all of the new standards of API SN (ie they didn't drop phosphorus down to 800ppm or something like that). It will still be good to use though as it will be recommended by Honda.

BMW branded oil also doesn't always display the API starburst; and sometimes doesn't have the donut either, and it's just a "fancy" Castrol oil.
 
Originally Posted By: hominid7
Looks like a Petro-Canada oil container to me.


It is PC oil. All Honda Canada oil is.
 
Thanks for all your answers.

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear


Ask your dealer where you bought it ....



I thought this was a good idea, so I did. This is what they emailed me:

Quote:
In answer to your question, the latest service category rating for gasoline engines in 2011 model year cars and light trucks is SN. The API SN rating is equivelent to the new GF-5 Oil rating by the International Lubricant and Approval Committee. SN engine oils are designated as resource conserving because they help improve fuel economy and protect vehicle emission system components. These oils have demonstrated a fuel economy improvement .Oils that meet the new SN motor oil ratings are dssigned to improve fuel economy, improve the life of emission components such as the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, and improve sludge, deposit and oxidation control. The oils also have better low temp viscosity, high-and low- temp corrosion protection and improved filter clogging protection. This designation exceeds the API seal which you are used to seeing. I hope this clears up any concern you may have had concerning the quality of the motor oils in which Honda uses.


Anyway, I guess that's that. I still don't particularly get why there's no seal, especially if it exceeds the standards, but it sounds like good oil. Must be some regulatory/legality typ thing. I'll be using the oil.
 
This thread reminds me of the post-Katrina M1 where they took the starburst off for a while. IIRC the official response was that they had to substitute some ingredient(s) and that made it ineligible for the starburst. However, they said it was still the same functionality.
 
Well, there goes uninformed customer service again. While much of what they say is true, API SN is not equivalent to ILSAC GF-5. They may be related, but they are not the same specifications. There are SN oils that cannot be ILSAC GF-5, simply by virtue of being the "wrong" grade.

SN oils are not resource conserving. GF-5 oils are resource conserving. One can have a 20w-50 in SN, but not GF-5.
 
Just for fun; let's take a closer look to what Garak is talking about

Quote:
In answer to your question, the latest service category rating for gasoline engines in 2011 model year cars and light trucks is SN.

True - I believe for almost all dealers not just Honda

Quote:
The API SN rating is equivelent to the new GF-5 Oil rating by the International Lubricant and Approval Committee.


True (sort of) GF-5 performance standard sets the basis for SN designation BUT the SN designation allows for oils outside the scope of GF-5 (a square is a rectangle but not all rectangles are square) SN requires engine test performance to be the same as GF-5 and a lot of their other characteristics are the same but SN allows for grades that GF-5 doesn't (ie Phosphorus content is restricted to 0.08% for GF-5 and common SN grades but there are exceptions)

Quote:
SN engine oils are designated as resource conserving because they help improve fuel economy and protect vehicle emission system components. These oils have demonstrated a fuel economy improvement .Oils that meet the new SN motor oil ratings are dssigned to improve fuel economy, improve the life of emission components such as the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, and improve sludge, deposit and oxidation control. The oils also have better low temp viscosity, high-and low- temp corrosion protection and improved filter clogging protection.


True - but only if the SN oil meets the requirement for the RESOURCE CONSERVING certification mark. EXAMPLE: Sequence VID is not required for oils not displaying the resource conserving mark nor is the 79% retention rate of phosphorus required nor the high temp deposit requirement. these oils can still be classed as SN

Quote:
This designation exceeds the API seal which you are used to seeing. I hope this clears up any concern you may have had concerning the quality of the motor oils in which Honda uses.


This sounds like marketing drivel to me. If the Oil meets ILSAC GF-5 then it also meets API SN and they were to cheap to pay for the licence. BUT since the oil has been identified as re-labeled PC then why should the API get to collect double royalties (once when PC sold it to Honda and once when Honda sells it to you). I don't blame them but if their manual says use a certain grade and service category you would expect the dealer oil to have them on the bottle.
 
Originally Posted By: carwreck
This appears to be a US label standards compared to other oil standards...

API symbol is for US market and measured in qts, you bought the non-US version measured in litre.


That's still mighty odd. We get all kinds of oils in Canada with API symbols and manual mentions of the standards. I don't have the answer. It's either an oversight on labeling or certification or someone's being cheap.

In the end, if I was driving a Honda under warranty and was using Honda oil from the dealership, I wouldn't lose sleep over it, since it is Genuine Honda oil, and probably covered under the manual verbiage. It still is weird, though.
 
I think you have every right to be demanding since you paid a pretty high price for that oil.

I would go back to the dealer politely inform them of your concerns and see if they possibly have bottles with the starburst symbol around . Likely they have a couple of lot numbers hanging around.

Ask and you will likely receive.
 
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