Honda Manual Transmissions and Diferentials

[widman]

I'm looking for a replacement for the Honda Fluids for the CR-V and others. The Honda Dealer does not carry the Honda fluids (small volume, $200 a year registration fee per product, monthly paperwork on imports and sales, etc.)
They currently use 15W-40 Diesel engine oil in the transmission/transaxle and Dexron in the Differential until 50,000 km, then use GL-5 80W-90 in the Differentials.
Does anyone know enough about these fluids to offer a better substitute? (not Redline, Shaeffer, or Amsoil, since none of these are available either).

 

[TooSlick]

Widman,

In terms of viscometrics and additive chemistry, the Honda syncromesh transmission fluid is generically like a low viscosity, synthetic diesel oil. As I recall, the viscosity @ 100C is in the 11-12 Cst range..... I'd suggest the Delo 400, 0w-30 synthetic for this application if you can get it shipped down there. For older worn transaxles, the Delo 400, 5w-40 would probably quiet things down a bit. Given the very hot climate you deal with, the thicker oil should be fine in terms shifting during the warmup phase.

The fluid used for the viscous couplings in the AWD models is a Honda spec fluid and I don't know of any substitute....

I've seen some front diffs on Jeeps that call for a Dexron type ATF, so you may be fine there. I'd do an oil analysis on the OEM fluid and look at viscosity @ 40C/100C, along with the additive levels and try to match the viscosity index and chemistry.

Hope this helps!

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics

 

[biodiesel]

What are the suggested fluids to be used in these two applications on the CR-V?

I know for a fact that most dealerships carry the differential fluid associated with the CR-V because many have tried to put that in to the rear end of the S2000 which calls for a completely different fluid.

EDIT - Just noticed you're in Bolivia...nevermind what I said about the fluid being readily available at the dealerships. What are the manufacturers suggested fluids for this car?

 

[widman]

Thanks. I think I will use the Delo 5W-40 Synthetic in the Trans. I found the analysis, and it looks close. Certainly better than the Argentine group I 15W-40 the dealer is using.
But what is the CVT fluid used in the rear differential? That wouldn't be the same as viscous coupling fluid. The dealer is using Dexron when new and regular 80w-90 when they have 50,000 km. I haven't seen any analisis of this fluid.

 

[TooSlick]

The diffs in 1997-2001 CR-Vs call for "Honda genuine CVT fluid"
The Automatic transaxles in the '96-'02 models also call for this fluid ...

The diffs in 2002 models call for "Honda Dual Pump Fluid"

I have no idea what either of these are ....


TS

 

[SpitIX]

All CR-Vs use Honda ATF-Z1 in the automatic transmissions.
All CR-Vs use Honda Dual Pump Fluid in the rear differential. This fluid superceded the "CVT" fluid several years ago. There currently is no substitute for the Honda dual pump fluid.
Thanks.

 

[widman]

OK, I accept that there is no official substitute. But Does anyone have any idea of what it is? If you had a vehicle that "required" Honda CVT Fluid, Dual Pump Fluid, or ATF-Z1, and there were no Honda dealers or honda fluids available, what would you use? What are the next best options?

It's a little like a delivery of 3/4 tons that I have to make. Ideally I send it in a 1 ton pickup. If not available, I send it in the 3 ton truck. If that is not available, I send it in the 7 ton truck. Finally, if none of those are available, like it or not it goes in a 1/2 ton pickup.

 

[SpitIX]

>>>> I'd use the lightest GL5 gear oil you have easy access to ... with the limited slip additive if it is of that type. >>

I must strongly recommend that you use ONLY Honda Dual Pump Fluid in the rear differential of a CR-V. The two hydraulic pumps and the clutch that are part of the differential assembly are not designed to use gear oil. The diff only holds a liter of fluid and the correct fluid is not that expensive. A new diff is about $1500 USD.
Thanks.

 

[therion]

quote:

---

Originally posted by widman:
OK, I accept that there is no official substitute. But Does anyone have any idea of what it is? If you had a vehicle that "required" Honda CVT Fluid, Dual Pump Fluid, or ATF-Z1, and there were no Honda dealers or honda fluids available, what would you use? What are the next best options?

It's a little like a delivery of 3/4 tons that I have to make. Ideally I send it in a 1 ton pickup. If not available, I send it in the 3 ton truck. If that is not available, I send it in the 7 ton truck. Finally, if none of those are available, like it or not it goes in a 1/2 ton pickup.

---

Dextron III is a substitute for the ATF-Z1 in my friends 1998 Civic. It says so in the manual, but they strongly recommend to switch to the ATF-Z1 ASAP becuase it has special "additives" for honda transmissions.

 

[TooSlick]

Widman,

Amsoil has fully tested their synthetic ATF in Honda/Acura transmissions and warrantees it for Honda ATF-Z1 applications. So you could import that stuff by the 55 gallon drum or 275 gallon "tote" if you wanted to go to the trouble to do so.

These viscous coupling use special fluids and some of them are even "thixotropic". In other words, their viscosity is highly dependent on shear rate. It is actually this property of the fluid that allows these systems to transfer torque effectively. I'm not sure I'd attempt to reverse engineer this type of fluid.

I suspect the Honda dual pump oil is a high quality hydraulic/transmission fluid of some type. You could probably closely match the chemical/physical properties of this fluid, but I'd work with the Tech guys at Chevrons lab. I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to do this in the garage

TS

 

[widman]

Thanks, I think slowly I'm getting there. Honda doesn't even have 2% of the market here, so it's not a big deal, but I like to have what I can, and now have an oil change customer with 2 CR-V's. The standard answer from Chevron is they have no product in either Chevron or Texaco, but I'm hoping to get some help from an expert I know there in the transmission section (rather than Lubetek) when he gets back from vacation.
I've never tried to find the viscous fluids. Probably something like I sell the sugarmills that is a semi-sinthetic oil with a viscosity of 16,000 cst at 40C. Sort of like super thick honey.

 

[Bror Jace]

widman, about a year and a half ago I asked Dave Granquist of Red Line which fluid they had which would be suitable for CRV rear ends. He said he had no idea since Honda would not release the specs.

I'd use the lightest GL5 gear oil you have easy access to ... with the limited slip additive if it is of that type.

Have you tried calling American Honda or asking them through their website? They may offer you a 2nd-choice ("In an emergency") fluid for your cute 'ute.

--- Bror Jace