Honda frc 800 tiller stuck in gear.

[gasman556]

I’m hoping to get some help with this. My dad’s Honda tiller is stuck in gear and won’t shift out of it. I don’t want to strong arm it, but she’s good and stuck. Transmission oil level is appropriate.

I started it and it was working fine until I had to reverse. It did just fine and then wouldn’t give me any gear other than “2.”

I’ve sprayed Kroil into any linkage that moves including cables. I haven’t tried to grease any shift zerks yet. Engine is good and hums. I’m worried there’s a transmission fork that’s not quite right or there’s something inside the gearbox that needs attention. Any insight or troubleshooting you all think I should start with would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

 

[Marcozi]

Have you checked the fluid level?

 

[gasman556]

Have you checked the fluid level?

First thing I checked. Oil level was good and it looked good as I’m currently draining it now.

 

[gasman556]

any transmissionmission gurus out there able to help with direction? I’ve got some glitter in the transmission case. Do I need to replace the shift holder assembly, gears, and chain for this to be functional?

 

[gasman556]

I’m now considering replacing the bearings, shift holder assembly, and any gears that “don’t look right.” I’ll finish cleaning all the metallic paste residue and old gasket/fipg before installing new parts. Lmk if there’s any sort of other “while you’re in there” tasks. It’s quite a bit more involved than I was hoping. But here we are.

 

[gasman556]

Sitrep:
I’ve ordered a lot of bearings, the gasket, shift linkage assembly. I’ve got a bearing puller on the way and am looking into the specific Honda tools recommended for this job.


Anyone ever pack bearings they’re throwing into a transmission? If so, what grease would you recommend?

 

[maraakate]

Tacky wheel bearing grease. Just spin the bearings by hand if you can. As long as they don't feel crunchy and there isn't a notch it likes to settle in then they're OK to reuse. Bearings like that tend to go bad from a rust spot from sitting for long periods of time (i.e. literally years) or complete lack of oil.

I'm not a transmission guru, but I see there are chains in there. Have you considered the chain slack being excessive?

 

[maraakate]

Forgot to mention those shifter forks. At least on older equipment they can get worn and cause funny shifting issues. Take a look at them carefully. Might be best to post close-up pictures here.

EDIT: Sorry. A lot to think about. Make sure if you remove any gears that you keep it organized including the direction any circlips and thrust washers. There's usually a smooth side and dull side and it must go in a certain direction or it will wear rapidly. Honda's way of recommending this in older literature is to get some mechanics wire and thread all the pieces through it and hang it up. A good idea.

 

[gasman556]

@maraakate thanks! Would NLGI#2 grease work that I've been using for trailer wheel bearings (Mystik iirc)?

I don't know what would be considered excessive slack for the chains. They seem like they're in decent condition however fwiw. I'm swapping all the bearings as there were a few that felt rough when I spun them. Not all, but at least two. I figured I don't want to do this $hit again, so here we are. The forks come with the new (very expensive) shifter assembly I bought. Hopefully another bullet dodged there.

I've got a service manual that has the detailed exploded view with part numbers, circlips, washers, etc with the diagram and am hoping this is enough for me not to screw the pooch when it comes time for reassembly orientation.

 

[maraakate]

NGLI #2. I just use Lucas Red N' Tacky. Not a Lucas fanboy (hate their snake oil), but that grease is very tacky and will stay put. Great for engine assembly. Never used Mystik, but it is well-liked around here. I'm sure it will be fine.

Chain slack is normally determined by measuring the length of the chain, but honestly since you are in there you might as well just replace them. Probably cheap enough.

Just go slow and double check everything. Don't use RTV. Get the real gasket. Don't bother with aftermarket parts on this kind of stuff. Replace that shaft seal too on the cover. Again, don't bother with aftermarket. Even the seals tend to leak after a while when it's aftermarket.

 

[gasman556]

NGLI #2. I just use Lucas Red N' Tacky. Not a Lucas fanboy (hate their snake oil), but that grease is very tacky and will stay put. Great for engine assembly. Never used Mystik, but it is well-liked around here. I'm sure it will be fine.

Chain slack is normally determined by measuring the length of the chain, but honestly since you are in there you might as well just replace them. Probably cheap enough.

Just go slow and double check everything. Don't use RTV. Get the real gasket. Don't bother with aftermarket parts on this kind of stuff. Replace that shaft seal too on the cover. Again, don't bother with aftermarket. Even the seals tend to leak after a while when it's aftermarket.

Thanks again.

I didn't order chains...looks like that's next.

The gasket is a paper like thing best I can tell from the old one. It looks like they did gasket AND fipg of some flavor. Or they didn't prep the surface like I did and just went with the gasket. I can't tell. Is this something to use both with? That'd be a first for me if so.

EDIT: The chains are about $300. I'm going to look at the others and see if I can find a length spec before spending even more money on this thing. I haven't even gotten all the driver handle/adapter/shaft puller tools yet.

 

[BC1]

This is a tiller that lives in dirt. The amount of goo shown would not concern me. Did you actually find something bad and figure out what was preventing the gears changing?

 

[gasman556]

This is a tiller that lives in dirt. The amount of goo shown would not concern me. Did you actually find something bad and figure out what was preventing the gears changing?

The shift holder assembly wouldn’t budge. Beyond that and aside from the slop in the transmission case, everything looked decent. Pic of assembly shown below. My guess is a spring is either broken or one of the ball bearings is stuck somehow causing no shifting out of anything but second gear.

When I spun some of the bearings, that’s when I could see some didn’t feel smooth as the others and why I’m just moving to change them.

 

[maraakate]

Thanks again.

I didn't order chains...looks like that's next.

The gasket is a paper like thing best I can tell from the old one. It looks like they did gasket AND fipg of some flavor. Or they didn't prep the surface like I did and just went with the gasket. I can't tell. Is this something to use both with? That'd be a first for me if so.

EDIT: The chains are about $300. I'm going to look at the others and see if I can find a length spec before spending even more money on this thing. I haven't even gotten all the driver handle/adapter/shaft puller tools yet.

Very careful on the chain. They're probably some generic DID like a 419T or something, but you'll need to research.

 

[gasman556]

Very careful on the chain. They're probably some generic DID like a 419T or something, but you'll need to research.

Thanks. I will likely be using the chain that's currently there if it specs out. Would any FIPG work that's meant for oil exposure? I'd rather buy high quality materials since I'm doing the labor myself.

 

[maraakate]

For the gasket only use the OEM one and grease it a skim coat to prevent it from sliding around during installation. Usually there is dowel pins. Get the surface clean as possible. I use little red/320 grit equivalent sanding stones for sharpening knives to prep surfaces and use Tap Magic, etc. as a lubricant while doing this.

 

[maraakate]

Thanks. I will likely be using the chain that's currently there if it specs out. Would any FIPG work that's meant for oil exposure? I'd rather buy high quality materials since I'm doing the labor myself.

I don't know what FIPG means, but I assume it's some kind of RTV/Hondabond/etc. kind of thing. Never use that anywhere on an engine unless the factory service manual (FSM) explicitly tells you to do so. People think you're doing the gaskets a favour by "dressing" the gasket up, but it doesn't really work out that way. The only time I use RTV outside of scope is for a thermostat housing gasket, water pump, etc.

 

[maraakate]

Look at that marking carefully. I think it's an RK chain, which means it's OK to use DID. Whichever is cheaper. What is the Honda Part Number? Might be able to figure out what it is so you can order a generic chain and cut to length. If you do that then you will need a chain riveting tool as well or take it to a motorcycle shop and have them rivet it for you. They'll probably do it for free while you wait if you ask nicely.

 

[gasman556]

View attachment 330579

Look at that marking carefully. I think it's an RK chain, which means it's OK to use DID. Whichever is cheaper. What is the Honda Part Number? Might be able to figure out what it is so you can order a generic chain and cut to length. If you do that then you will need a chain riveting tool as well or take it to a motorcycle shop and have them rivet it for you. They'll probably do it for free while you wait if you ask nicely.

OK! I'll look at the chain next time I can. Thanks! Two part numbers for the chains with prices from the cheapest OEM dealer I can find:

73571-V20-003 is the one that's $202 for rotary shaft chain
23861-V20-003 is $58 for final drive (wheel) chain

If you're REALLY recommending I replace them, I'll take your word on good faith and just bite the bullet. I'm picking this up in a not so subtle way from your posts (haha). lmk if I'm off base with this assumption.

FIPG = form in place gasket

 

[gasman556]

For the gasket only use the OEM one and grease it a skim coat to prevent it from sliding around during installation. Usually there is dowel pins. Get the surface clean as possible. I use little red/320 grit equivalent sanding stones for sharpening knives to prep surfaces and use Tap Magic, etc. as a lubricant while doing this.

good to know. no dowel pins for me unfortunately. Just nuts and bolts.

I took a surgically used dremel and consistently swapped sandpaper heads to the one side as this gasket didn't respond to any of my scotch brite, degreaser, manual sanding attempts.

How likely am I going to need a shaft puller for this? I don't have one, but if I need one I don't want to find out the day of.