Honda Fit With Harsh Shifts

[D Hill]

Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac


Are Honda autos still designed like manuals?


yes, and so they are not paying patent holding by other companies.




....but Honda is PAYING in the court of public opinion because people are finally realizing that Honda A/Ts have been problematic for years.
The Kia Optima just scored higher than the Accord in an owners survey.


If this is the case why do used ones with a ton of mileage (and an auto trans) still command a ridiculous price?

Also, why does every person I've met when speaking about hondas mention that they "run forever?"

Now, having married someone whose entire car ownership life of 15 years has been with Hondas (an '89 Accord, '00 Civic and now a '91 Accord, all autos) I have the (dis?)pleasure of working on them when needed. I agree that they make a good vehicle overall, but they are unnecessarily complex in many respects ('91 Accords hubcaps that require the lugnuts to be removed, anyone?) parts are expensive (and wear out like every other car in the universe) and their automatics (at least from 2000 back) are rubbish. And yet (yet!) in a country where perhaps 8 out of 10 drivers do not know how to drive a manual, a car manufacturer who has a habit of making dodgy automatics historically is still at or near the top list of vehicles people continue to buy in quantity.

I think the court of public opinion yet again needs a whole lot of work.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: D Hill
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac


Are Honda autos still designed like manuals?


yes, and so they are not paying patent holding by other companies.




....but Honda is PAYING in the court of public opinion because people are finally realizing that Honda A/Ts have been problematic for years.
The Kia Optima just scored higher than the Accord in an owners survey.


If this is the case why do used ones with a ton of mileage (and an auto trans) still command a ridiculous price?

Also, why does every person I've met when speaking about hondas mention that they "run forever?"

Now, having married someone whose entire car ownership life of 15 years has been with Hondas (an '89 Accord, '00 Civic and now a '91 Accord, all autos) I have the (dis?)pleasure of working on them when needed. I agree that they make a good vehicle overall, but they are unnecessarily complex in many respects ('91 Accords hubcaps that require the lugnuts to be removed, anyone?) parts are expensive (and wear out like every other car in the universe) and their automatics (at least from 2000 back) are rubbish. And yet (yet!) in a country where perhaps 8 out of 10 drivers do not know how to drive a manual, a car manufacturer who has a habit of making dodgy automatics historically is still at or near the top list of vehicles people continue to buy in quantity.

I think the court of public opinion yet again needs a whole lot of work.


I think only certain years/models of a/t equipped Honda's had above average problems. For instance the 01 Civic, if you check carcomplaints.com, there are a ton, but drastically drop off on later years .

As for hubcaps that can't be removed without taking the lugs off. Totally disagree with that complaint. That is a MUCH better design then just being able to pop off. Because, those would just pop off, on a pot hole, theft, etc. And really, how often would you ever need to take a hub cap off if you didn't plan on removing the wheel anyways? I figured everyone stopped making hub caps that weren't retained by lug nuts at least 15 years ago, or at least they should of.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Thanks for your impressions of DW-1 vs. the Z1.


His results were the same, as described, as I have experienced when replacing Z1 with amsoil. Quicker, no-nonsense engagement, but not harsh either... just into gear... Glad they are finally putting an oem synthetic fluid out there!

M

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Quote:


If this is the case why do used ones with a ton of mileage (and an auto trans) still command a ridiculous price?

Also, why does every person I've met when speaking about hondas mention that they "run forever?"

Now, having married someone whose entire car ownership life of 15 years has been with Hondas (an '89 Accord, '00 Civic and now a '91 Accord, all autos) I have the (dis?)pleasure of working on them when needed. I agree that they make a good vehicle overall, but they are unnecessarily complex in many respects ('91 Accords hubcaps that require the lugnuts to be removed, anyone?) parts are expensive (and wear out like every other car in the universe) and their automatics (at least from 2000 back) are rubbish. And yet (yet!) in a country where perhaps 8 out of 10 drivers do not know how to drive a manual, a car manufacturer who has a habit of making dodgy automatics historically is still at or near the top list of vehicles people continue to buy in quantity.

I think the court of public opinion yet again needs a whole lot of work.


I think that there's some buying off of the magazine writers. Yes, Seriously. 7 of the 10 most recalled cars of 2010 were Toyota, yet they are "SOOOOO" favored by reviewers..

The Japanese culture favors an emotional or spiritual attatchment to a product. Products are about how they make you feel. This works in their marketing with the bleeding heart hippie types. Even Apple Computer uses this technique succesfully. I'll bet you that if a Honda or Toyota or Apple user's product would spontaniously combust, they'd go buy another one... the slightly newer model.

 

[meep]

hmmm... PC by Day, Mac by night... one I use, one I enjoy.

I drive a jeep - more problems than any honda or subaru I've owned, but it has my heart more than they did.

So yeah, sure. emotional attachment to a product, but perhaps overgeneralizing?

M

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

How emotional can you get about a Camry, Corolla, Civic, or Accord?

And Japanese tradition favors stoicism.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead


I think that there's some buying off of the magazine writers. Yes, Seriously. 7 of the 10 most recalled cars of 2010 were Toyota, yet they are "SOOOOO" favored by reviewers..



Because they are not keeping a car for 10 years then write a review.

Quote:
The Japanese culture favors an emotional or spiritual attatchment to a product. Products are about how they make you feel. This works in their marketing with the bleeding heart hippie types. Even Apple Computer uses this technique succesfully.


That's how product marketing work in every market in every country.

Quote:
I'll bet you that if a Honda or Toyota or Apple user's product would spontaniously combust, they'd go buy another one... the slightly newer model.


So what brand do you drive and what computer do you use? and what would you buy if they spontaneously combust?

 

[D Hill]

I've never had one spontaneously combust (I did have the swollen battery issue, which I guess if left unattended to could have been serious), but the last two Apple laptops I've owned (both MacBook Pro 17") were so dodgy that apple replaced the first one as a lemon, and the second wasn't much better. So I'll pass on spending Apple bucks when I can get better reliability from Sony or Lenovo for less money.

As for the cars, I seriously believe most folks are on perpetual clue hunt, which is why I still get folks justifying purchases of Hondas and Toyotas in 2011 with the reliability issues their grandparents had with a Ford or Chevy in 1985.

Simple people make simple cons easy to pull off and quite repeatable. Good marketing is just icing on the cake, making lambs feel like lions while they get herded wherever the real lions wish.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

I actually own a comptuer business. So my computers all carry our brand as they are assembled right next to my home. I havn't had any spontanious combustion with any, but if we did, I would shift part manufacturers on the part that failed.

Cars.. I drive Ford family vehicles. I've had the most longevity and minimal issues with them. I've been through 4. I would consider another car right away if I felt I was being let down. My family, and my wife's family were major GM buyers. I thought the GM's my dad had, and my wife had were too glitchy. So I defected to Ford family.. I've been able to keep all my FMC vehicles for over 100K trouble-free miles. The worst issues we've seen are cured with a cleaning/fluid change as far an engines and transmissions go. Other Mech has been typical wear/tear as for joints and struts and the alike.

Re-reading my earlier post, I came off as extra-brash.. didn't want to do that. There are some folks that are lockstep loyal with a brand regardless of the situation. That's not so much my style. I will normally find what works for me, and change when it's necessary.

 

[The Critic]

I did another 3 qt drain and refill with ATF DW-1 this morning. Even though the latest drain and refill only boosted the DW-1 percentage from 50% to 75%, the shifts are even quicker and smoother now. The transmission also engages first gear immediately from a stop, as opposed to before, where it would slam and lurch into 1st gear.

 

[benjamming]

How much did you pay per qt for the DW1?

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I did another 3 qt drain and refill with ATF DW-1 this morning. Even though the latest drain and refill only boosted the DW-1 percentage from 50% to 75%, the shifts are even quicker and smoother now. The transmission also engages first gear immediately from a stop, as opposed to before, where it would slam and lurch into 1st gear.


thanks for sharing the result with us!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
How much did you pay per qt for the DW1?

$7.50/qt. My local dealer uses matrix pricing and his "list" price is $9.56/qt.

Bernardi and some of the others sell it in the $6/qt range since they discount from the true list price, but for small parts like this, a $1 or so isn't that big of a deal.

 

[MonumentOiler]

My dealer is charging $9.96 a quart!

Bernardi will be getting some more of my business.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
My dealer is charging $9.96 a quart!

Bernardi will be getting some more of my business.


This is what you do:

Walk up to the parts person and ask for the price. Then say, can you do any better than that?

This approach has never failed me. I have always succeeded in getting at least 20% off the original price.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
My dealer is charging $9.96 a quart!

Bernardi will be getting some more of my business.


This is what you do:

Walk up to the parts person and ask for the price. Then say, can you do any better than that?

This approach has never failed me. I have always succeeded in getting at least 20% off the original price.

.. that is great to know, must be an USA thing!! i shall try that on my next trip to Buffalo!

 

[AcuraTech]

Too early to tell if the new stuff is any better long term. We finally just exhausted our supply of Z1 last month. We get DW in 55 gallon bulk drums, and I've done one drain and fill on the RSX with it since we got it. No noticeable difference yet, but it shifted fine before that too.

Realistically, it can't be any worse than Z1. That stuff was done after 15k. Although the amount of transmission failures has been almost zero as of late, even with Z1. *Edit: Transmission failures on 2004 and newer cars has been almost zero*

 

[AcuraTech]

The worst is trying to drain a car with hot Z1 that has about 60k on it. It thins to about the consistency of water and comes out fast so it makes a splashing mess everywhere. And it smells like someone lit a diaper full of hair on fire. Blah. At least its just a spill and fill.

 

[Joseph Fihn]

I found what AcuraTech said, two posts above, quite interesting as regards the durability of the '04 & newer automatic transmissions. The last two times I was at the dealership, I asked the mechanics what they are seeing with the auto's & if there is a problem & how to avoid a catastrophic event with my "09 Civic, EX, auto.

What they told me was the same trans used in the Civic's is also used in larger vehicles & the trans gets used much harder. The Civic is so light that they are almost never being abused. They also recommend changing fluids at 25,000-30,000 mile intervals.

Thank you,

Joe F.