Honda Civic Auto Tranny Fluid Type?

[KiaSedona05]

Well, I am not sure even LubeGard will help with my symptom. You see, the transmission clunks when you step on the gas after slowing down, usually under 15mph then speed up again. If I come to a complete stop and then take off it's fine. It has something to do with torque I think and how everything is meshing at different speeds. Many Honda owners experience this and if LubeGard would help this fine, but I just think the transmissions on these Honda products are junk and designed goofy.

BTW, I did a drain and fill last night with Valvoline ATF for cars with over 75k (I have 115k now) and I don't notice anything positive at all. Same old transmission. Clunk is still there and it shifts about the same which was never really too big a deal.

Some people have suggested checking the CV voints and stuff like that but I'm no expert machanic and some of that stuff is over my head. Honda can't help and I don't think anything on the market would help the dreaded clunk but I am willing to try anything at this point.

 

[unDummy]

Lubegard will help with valvebody cleaning. Its worth a shot but not an instant fix. Add a bottle of Platinum after your 2nd or 3rd drain/refill.
Runrite and Smartblend also have competing products.

Anyone think that his cable has been misadjusted since new? Does Honda have drivetrain "software updates" like other automakers?

Maxlife is one of those fluids that has claimed compatiblity with a bunch of specs. I'd prefer the Valvoline Durablend Mercon-V because its labelled a blend unlike the Maxlife. Durablend also has Valvoline support for many specs.

 

[HondaMan]

KiaSedona05,

Per the factory service manual:

(man. and auto trans)
Harsh Shift yields causes:
2,4,15,23,24,27,47
and notes:
A,E,H,I,L,V

Causes
2 - throttle cable too short
4 - Wrong type ATF
15 - Throttle B valve stuck
23 - Clutch pressure control valve stuck
24 - 2nd orifice control valve stuck
27 - 3rd kickdown valve stuck
47 - Clutch clearance incorrect

notes:
A - see flush procedure
E - if throttle valve B is stuck, inspect clutches for wear
H - 2nd orifice control valve stuck - check 2nd and 3rd clutch packs
I - same as above 3rd and 4th
L - ( cant be done without rebuild, so no need to worry )
V - Stresses that throttle cable adjustment is NOT be be ignored and that misadjustment causes TOO many trasmission problems.


15 is very common.

Note V should be able to be handled by anyone who is good, even the dealer, it should not be expensive at all.

A good Honda dealer will help, they just have to be paid.

Other things I have seen per your situation:

Check ELECTRICAL.
Make sure the ALT is working correctly, make sure you have a GOOD battery, and make sure you have PROPER ground.

Your post indicated you got MaxLife... are you certain yours was not a DEX application?

Good Luck.

 

[The Critic]

HondaMan,
Maxlife ATF works in a DexIII (H) app as well, but this app DOES call for Honda Z-1.

Michael

 

[Leon]

Check the adjustment of the throttle cable.

It's better (safe side) to have higher pressures and harsh shifts than smoother shifts and occasional slipping (really bad on the clutches).

Honda transmissions always have harsh shifts compared with other transmissions.

 

[KiaSedona05]

I adjusted my throttle cable about a year ago but the problems with the transmission were already present and that didn't affect it one way or another. I adjusted the trottle cable because I was getting hesitation when I needed to pass someone or apply throttle in a hurry. So, I tightened the cable and this resolved that issue.

Also, I recently added about three quarts (after a drain and fill) of Valvoline MaxLife for transmissions over 75,000 miles. Right on this bottle is states that it is a Dexron III / Mercon type fluid. On the back of the bottle it also states this fluid exceeds Honda ATF-Z1 requirements among many others.

Thanks for all this information HondaMan. I just need to print some of this out and take it to Honda one more time to see if they can pinpoint the issue. If not, I kinda give up and just will deal with it until it dies or needs a new one. I remember replacing a transmission in my Acura I had years ago which is another Honda product. You think I would have learned.

I just have no luck with vehicles I tellin' ya! And to think, I "baby" the heck out of them and do regular maintenance! Grrrr Other people have cars for 10 years and hardly do anything to them and they last forever. Why me? I've owned Honda, Acura, Toyota, Subaru, and Pontiac (now a Kia van) and the only car that ever was good to me was the Subaru. Hmmmm Let's hope this Kia can be the savior from some bad experiences.

 

[Leon]

quote:

---

Originally posted by KiaSedona05:
I adjusted the trottle cable because I was getting hesitation when I needed to pass someone or apply throttle in a hurry. So, I tightened the cable and this resolved that issue.

---

Your cable is too tight. Don't loosen it too much because you will get occasional flares exactly where it "clunks" now (when you take off from a standing start it will seem OK).

 

[KiaSedona05]

It's too tight? Why do you say this? It seems just right now, at least for response when I need the power. Before it lagged real bad. I don't see how this would even affect the clunk syndrom. Can you explain?

 

[Leon]

If you try different adjustments you will find out. When you loosen it up, the clunk will be gone. Loosen it up more and it will flare occasionally where it clunked before.

When you take off from a standing start all adjustments will seem fine. Tighter gives you higher shift points and faster downshifts. Looser gives you earlier shift points and much slower downshifts. The big difference is when downshifting, when tight it will clunk and when too loose it will flare (you don't want the transmission to flare, it's like slipping the clutch).

It's hard to find the adjustment that really suits your driving, note that in the winter your setting will seem tighter and in the summer looser.

 

[KiaSedona05]

Interesting. Well, I can give it a try and play around with it. This would be incredible if that were the answer. I'll keep you all updated.

 

[HondaMan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leon:
If you try different adjustments you will find out. When you loosen it up, the clunk will be gone. Loosen it up more and it will flare occasionally where it clunked before.

When you take off from a standing start all adjustments will seem fine. Tighter gives you higher shift points and faster downshifts. Looser gives you earlier shift points and much slower downshifts. The big difference is when downshifting, when tight it will clunk and when too loose it will flare (you don't want the transmission to flare, it's like slipping the clutch).

It's hard to find the adjustment that really suits your driving, note that in the winter your setting will seem tighter and in the summer looser.

---

Excellent information Leon that everyone can learn from. I had my little Accord up in Ohio this past winter and man where the kickdowns rough!

 

[KiaSedona05]

No, I haven't tried the "fix" yet but I honestly don't see how this would affect the "clunk". Why would throttle have anything to do with how the car shifts? I keep re-reading your post explaining this but it just doesn't jive. I guess the only way to tell is try it, I know. Wouldn't it be the same if I slowly press on the gas? Well, I've tried this and it still clunks. So.... why would loosening the throttle be any different? Hmmmm...

Ok, I'll shut up now and try it. Nothing to lose I suppose!

 

[brianl703]

It sounds like this car (2002 Honda Civic?) has a throttle valve cable which controls when the shifts take place, so that at light throttle, the shifts take place sooner, and at heavy throttle,the shifts take place later. The throttle valve cable usually runs from the throttle body to the transmission, and is separate from the cable which runs from the gas pedal to the throttle body.

A misadjusted throttle valve cable can indeed cause a clunk or harsh shifts. A google search for "throttle valve cable" will turn up more information about this subject than you could possibly want.


Throttle valve cables are not as common as they once were..now shifting is usually electronically controlled via solenoids, computer software inside a module, and a throttle position sensor which the software reads to perform the same function that the throttle valve cable did.

 

[brianl703]

By the way, the throttle valve cable can usually be adjusted independently of the gas pedal cable.

 

[KiaSedona05]

Is this something I can get to? I'll do some research on this too.

Thanks.

 

[Leon]

The throttle control lever is on the front side of the transmission, behind the radiator. Remember, your throttle control cable needs minor adjustment.

It's safer to be on the tight side (transmission wise). Automatics don't like slipping clutches at all.

The following procedure is from Haynes manual (you've been warned).
Check
1. Make sure your accelerator cable freeplay and idle speed are correct.
2. Warm up the engine to operating temperature.
3. Verify that the throttle control lever is synchronized with the throttle linkage.
Adjustment
4. Verify that there is play in the throttle control lever while the accelerator pedal is at full throttle.
5. Verify that the throttle linkage is in the fully-closed position.
6. Loosen the throttle control cable locknutnear the throttle body.
7. Remove all freeplay while pushing the throttle control lever to the fully-closed position. Tighten the nut.
8. Check

Every 2-3 years I may adjust the cable on the transmission side, I don't touch the throttle body side.

 

[PandaBear]

My Integra shift hard like your civic. Seems like if you are driving from high speed down to low speed it keep itself in 4th gear. If you apply gas then it will downshift right away, causing the clunk. The feeling is similar to how one release the clutch on a manual car when shifting from N to 1 or 1 to 2 too quickly. The clutch grab but the engine has no torque to match up the car's speed.

After a while I learn to keep my gas pedal light for a bit until it smooth out before I press on it, or just keep it in D3 for a while.