Honda Accord V6 Destroyed -- Timing Belt Failure

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by dishdude
Interference belt motors suck. So 1990's


Actually they don't "suck" if you mind the maintenance change interval they are very reliable, and unlike chains the job in most common car models isn't too hard for any decent mechanic, if a chain starts to fail it is going to be a big job on even the common cars they are found on and the parts are usually expensive too.

My guess is in this instance the guy that worked on it made a mistake and it caused the failure.

If you really like your ride, why in the world would you pinch pennies unless you really have to. That being said I feel sorry for the car, it doesn't owe the owner anything at over 200k.

I hope the OP follows up and tells us what the cause of the failure was and maybe he will get lucky that there is no interference damage and a new belt can be put on and the car will be fine without any additional work. You never know with these things.


No it's the absolute worst engine design responsible for sending more cars to the scrapyard prematurely than anything else.



I agree dishdude.... Stupid design...

My lady's Camry is a belt driven NON interference motor... Better circumstance there if the belt goes.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by 02SE
I can't say I've ever seen a (properly installed) genuine OEM belt fail so early. Most don't fail until well after the suggested replacement interval.

I'd say a mistake during installation (T-belts don't fare well when mishandled during installation), a 'Mechanic' that knows theory, but has trouble putting it into practice, or counterfeit/ low-quality parts. There are a lot of junk parts out there, labeled as OEM or quality name brands. I'd be leery of any supposed OEM or name brand parts on, say, Ebay, at too-good-to-be-true prices.


The OP didn't say where OEM parts were purchased from?

This is becoming something that has to be checked carefully, especially when buying from places like Ebay and Amazon. There are so many sellers on there, You need to be careful when buying. I was looking around Amazon at Honda and Toyota oil filters and came across listing to where they looked very close to OEM oil filters, but, they were not.


He didn't say where the "OEM" parts were bought, unless I missed it.

I do know that counterfeit parts are a real problem. The counterfeiters are unfortunately getting very good at replicating the packaging of genuine parts. Unless you're very familiar with all the details of OEM packaging, it would be easy to be fooled.

So the old buyer beware comes into play. If it's from a possibly questionable source, and the price seems to good to be true, I'd likely skip those parts for a more reputable source. Such as a licensed dealer for the brand.



Very good post ^^^^^

I bought my serpentine belt from the dealership... $48. But it was worth it. And the original belt was ok at 177k miles... That is when I changed the original belt. A belt from the parts stores would have been half the price.... But I didn't care about $24 in this case. Not a big deal.

 

[Gebo]

First off, I wouldn't have the installer investigate the problem. Have another mechanic do the investigation. Even good people can do dishonest things when under a lot of pressure.

Secondly, do you know Honda OEM factory parts were used? True story, my secretary told me one day that I was getting a Timing belt put on my car that day. Hmmm, how could she know? Her husband was the manager at AutoZone and he told her he just sold a timing belt, water pump, etc for a 1983 Camry to a certain repair shop which was highly respected. Her husband said it had to mine as I was the only man around driving a 1983 Camry in our county.

Just so happens that shop was the one repairing my 1983 Camry. I had given them EXPLICIT instructions to only use factory Toyota OEM parts purchased from our local dealer. Belts, water pump, coolant, etc. He said he was gonna have to charge me more and I said I didn't care.

I go to pick up my car and asked to see the old parts and get a copy of the Toyota Invoice for my records. Guess what? They had just made a garbage run and all my old parts and the Toyota paperwork had gotten thrown away. Imagine the coincidence? I told him I would just go by Toyota dealer and get an copy of his invoice when he said they wouldn't give that to me. I said I would still give it a try. Of course, I didn't go as I got a copy of all the parts he bought for my 1983 from my secretary's husband.

The green coolant nearly gave me a heart attack.

I am not putting down or accusing anyone but the mechanic in my story. He lied, charged me more, used the incorrect coolant, lied some more, etc.
He deceived me by being totally dishonest on ALL levels.



In your situation, if I had to wager, I'd wager even odds that a simple mistake was made in installation. AN HONEST MISTAKE.

 

[Phishin]

My 2010 Accord has the K24 4-cylinder (with timing CHAIN). The chain "stretched" .... chains don't really stretch....but that's the term we use.
It was really far out of time. I had the chain replaced and EVERYTHING that touches the chain. Plus, the spool valve. $1500 using all OEM parts.

I bought this car in 2012 with 33k miles on it. It now has 190k. I go anywhere from 6-9k mile OCI's with good synthetic oil and filters and the car is driven on the highway 90% of the time.

Chains don't eliminate every problem.

 

[GoldDot40]

The OP said the guy who did the work came out and had him crank over the engine while he looked to see if the cam pulleys were rotating. Thing is...anytime I ever saw a true interference engine have pistons and valves hit...the engine wouldn't spin over at all. It's possible that the valve(s) broke all together, but I don't think I've ever seen one just break and allow the engine to crank over.

 

[CrackyWainwright]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
The OP said the guy who did the work came out and had him crank over the engine while he looked to see if the cam pulleys were rotating. Thing is...anytime I ever saw a true interference engine have pistons and valves hit...the engine wouldn't spin over at all. It's possible that the valve(s) broke all together, but I don't think I've ever seen one just break and allow the engine to crank over.


Correct. The mechanic told me that any valve damage was already done when the belt failed and that we could try to crank the engine over to see if the cam pulleys/sprockets were rotating. The engine would spin somewhat but sounded rough or hesitant doing so.

 

[kschachn]

Again, what proof is there that the belt failed?

No one has yet disassembled the front of the engine, correct?

 

[CrackyWainwright]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Again, what proof is there that the belt failed?

No one has yet disassembled the front of the engine, correct?


Correct, no one has taken the timing belt covers off, but the covers have inspection holes that the mechanic looked in with a flashlight. When he had me turn the engine over, he said the cam sprockets/pulleys were NOT turning along with the engine. So we really don't know what part failed specifically yet, but we know the belt has no tension on it and suddenly stopped doing its job last Friday morning at 8:30 am.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by CrackyWainwright
Correct, no one has taken the timing belt covers off, but the covers have inspection holes that the mechanic looked in with a flashlight. When he had me turn the engine over, he said the cam sprockets/pulleys were NOT turning along with the engine. So we really don't know what part failed specifically yet, but we know the belt has no tension on it and suddenly stopped doing its job last Friday morning at 8:30 am.

Yes I wasn't trying to imply that the belt was still intact and on the pulleys. I only meant there's no indication that it was the belt itself that initially failed and caused the subsequent issues.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Phishin
My 2010 Accord has the K24 4-cylinder (with timing CHAIN). The chain "stretched" .... chains don't really stretch....but that's the term we use.


Yeah, chain "stretch" just means the chain has become longer ("stretched") due to wear. It would really have to be worn badly to throw off timing a large amount. Timing chain wear must be mainly from a lack of proper lubrication, and/or inferior steel/heat treatment.

 

[brages]

Sorry about your loss... looking forward to hearing what went wrong. Good luck...


I have owned timing chain cars in the past, but currently have three with belts (two are interference)...

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Phishin
My 2010 Accord has the K24 4-cylinder (with timing CHAIN). The chain "stretched" .... chains don't really stretch....but that's the term we use.


Yeah, chain "stretch" just means the chain has become longer ("stretched") due to wear. It would really have to be worn badly to throw off timing a large amount. Timing chain wear must be mainly from a lack of proper lubrication, and/or inferior steel/heat treatment.


That's the problem with OHC engines. You need super long chains going from the crank at the bottom of the engine all the way to the top to the cams, oftentimes with 3 chains. Each link in the chain is a wear point. Pushrod engines have just one short chain that's much easier to replace.

 

[BlakeB]

Pull the spark plugs and run a borescope down, it the valves and pistons touched you'll most likely be able to tell pretty easily.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Phishin
My 2010 Accord has the K24 4-cylinder (with timing CHAIN). The chain "stretched" .... chains don't really stretch....but that's the term we use.
It was really far out of time. I had the chain replaced and EVERYTHING that touches the chain. Plus, the spool valve. $1500 using all OEM parts.

I bought this car in 2012 with 33k miles on it. It now has 190k. I go anywhere from 6-9k mile OCI's with good synthetic oil and filters and the car is driven on the highway 90% of the time.

Chains don't eliminate every problem.


They usually do. I drove a Lincoln Town Car with 585,000 miles (and probably 5000+ hours of idling-it was a livery car), it was retired with 650,000 miles. The timing chains installed at the Ford Romeo Engine Plant were untouched.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by CrackyWainwright
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
The OP said the guy who did the work came out and had him crank over the engine while he looked to see if the cam pulleys were rotating. Thing is...anytime I ever saw a true interference engine have pistons and valves hit...the engine wouldn't spin over at all. It's possible that the valve(s) broke all together, but I don't think I've ever seen one just break and allow the engine to crank over.


Correct. The mechanic told me that any valve damage was already done when the belt failed and that we could try to crank the engine over to see if the cam pulleys/sprockets were rotating. The engine would spin somewhat but sounded rough or hesitant doing so.


Cylinders with no compression, at a guess. You might actually be OK here. What RPM was the engine turning when it failed?

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle


Cylinders with no compression, at a guess. You might actually be OK here. What RPM was the engine turning when it failed?


I'm so hoping the OP got lucky here. This is better than rooting for the underdog in a college football game!

Be great if they throw a new belt on it and it's fine!

 

[CrackyWainwright]

Originally Posted by AC1DD


I'm so hoping the OP got lucky here. This is better than rooting for the underdog in a college football game!



Thank you, AC1DD! I appreciate your positive spirit and good will. The question of RPM at failure has come up: I was at 60+ mph and probably close to 2000 RPM because I was going up a slight hill. Yeah, I know . . . the engine was turning pretty fast at that moment.

 

[kschachn]

If the engine is an interference type then at least some valves will be damaged, there is no way they won't. The only thing you might get lucky about is whether or not there is a broken piston.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by CrackyWainwright
The question of RPM at failure has come up: I was at 60+ mph and probably close to 2000 RPM because I was going up a slight hill. Yeah, I know . . . the engine was turning pretty fast at that moment.


Valves bend even when the belt snaps while idling. Can't imagine it physically possible not to bend any at 2,000 rpm.

 

[CrackyWainwright]

My handsome, strong Accord three weeks before imploding, and the same car early in the morning on the side of the highway in Alabama where it came to a stop. (I don't know why the picture is displayed sideways. Sorry about that.)