Holy domestic bashing!

[LS2JSTS]

The key element in all of this back and forth bickering is the superior attitude displayed by many against domestic owners. Again and again it comes clear that the import owners, or at least a vocal minority of them, feel as though they are smarter for the decisions they have made. It is already in this thread and is very insulting to those on the other side of the equation.

My motto is, buy what you want, it's your money. I dont see my worth or intelligence as being tied to a car, but many do.

 

[d00df00d]

You think import bashers DON'T think they are superior?

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar

Seriously, I'm not going to roll the dice with another Ford, Chevy or Dodge just because Howie Long claims that things have changed. Sorry, they had their chance(s)...


So are you going to change your member name, or are you just a equestrian/feline lover?

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You think import bashers DON'T think they are superior?


Cant speak for others, but for me, absolutely not. I said it before and I'll say it again, it's a personal choice and I dont begrudge anyone how they choose to spend their own cash.

But look back through this or any other domestic/import thread and you'll notice that many make comments like I refered to. To them it's not about a car, it's about how the world perceives them. It's not about transportation, it's about "outdoing the Joneses".

If anything, the import bashers are suffering from an inferiority complex and lashing out against a perceived bias. A bias they see in this forum, a bias they see in the national media, a bias they see in the automotive press...it's everywhere.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
The key element in all of this back and forth bickering is the superior attitude displayed by many against domestic owners.

I don't know about that; it used to be that way a few years ago, but lately the anti-import guys have stepped it up. I mean, do you really think the import crowd has a greater superiority complex than the "Buy American Uber Alles" crowd? Lately, any critical article about Toyota or Honda gets posted around here fairly quickly, no? And the the threads always devolve into something like "well they're getting what they deserve" or worse, "the mainstream media won't report this...it's a conspiracy!" Meanwhile, everybody forgets that those "import" vehicles are mostly being built by their fellow Americans and that many of our "domestic" vehicles have higher foreign content that those darn foreign ones.

On a side note, just because my recent experiences with domestics have been poor, it doesn't mean I'm not rooting for a turn around. For instance, I posted a link to the Aveo-to-Michigan article because I thought "hey, that's great news for people really need something positive right now." That said, I'm not gonna buy one until I feel confident that they've fixed their problems...like knowingly installing faulty ISS units in hundreds of thousands of GM products, like FoMoCo redesigning their garbage DPFE censors 12 times in 15 years and yet not doing a recall, etc. They've got to earn my trust...

 

[getnpsi]

To be fair, I think everyone should MOON the Honda and Toyota Shuttles when they go by them. The BMW Lexus and Mercedes dealer loaners should get the same treatment. Ford and Chevy dealers also have shuttles and they need BA on cue.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS

If anything, the import bashers are suffering from an inferiority complex


Holy hypocrisy batman!

 

[LS2JSTS]

Where is the hypocrisy?

 

[Herz]

Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar
Actually, I've noticed the opposite lately: anti-China, anti-Germany...so many seem to think that the answer to our economic problems is circa-1925 protectionism.

As I said in another recent thread, BITOG isn't American: It's international. It'd be nice if people remembered that before they turn the Toby Keith up.


Quote:
You know it's probably not worth arguing about. There's been a lot of protectionist/economic nationalist rhetoric around here lately; the economy goes south and I guess we have to chase the straw man that A.M. talk radio tells us to. So is the nature of certain elements in this forum...even though people forget BITOG isn't American, it's international.


You know whats funny is you make these sterotypes about us as if we were right wing nut jobs. I am far from that, Toby Keith, HAH! That is really funny, I wouldnt listen to country if I had a gun stuck to my head and I don't remember the last time I listened to a AM talk show radio...Oh I am too busy listening to my hevy metal on my Mp3 player.

I can make the same judgements about you, since you call me a country music loving, right wing radio follower. I am going to call you a Socialist tea-drinking, left wing laptop-poetry writing, communist-chinese tool user.

Oh and btw, I own imports as well as domestics

 

[cchase]

Hey hey, this wasn't meant to be a continuation of what I'm complaining about.

Everyone can see when people start going off, responding doesn't get anyone anywhere. That was my point from the start.

 

[Herz]

Well in the end every car manufactuerer from every country has its ups and downs. Alot of people will have owned 1 car that has a problem and deem that brand as garbage. Look at the oil filter section. People buy one filter from Wix, or ST are the most recent. It has a defect and they "SWEAR I WILL NEVAR BUY THIS AGAIN!!!!" Even though that manufactuer makes millions of filters! Every manufactuere, for cars, oil filters, even cofee mugs, will have a problem now and again. I have a beef with GM right now but it has nothing to do with the quality of their cars and I will leave it out of this thread. I have owned Fords, GMs, Toyotas, and Jeeps (chrysler.) And there is something about each of them that I find a negative. They all have been GREAT cars.

 

[Gary Allan]

Ah, yes ..the NEVER AGAIN!!! Syndrome. If you happen to be a unicorn of misfortune, you'll eventually have no options to do anything. Shoot from the hip ..and let the chips fall as they may!!

The most sensible thing anyone can do in any (alleged) debate (argument) is to concede to the obvious. Attempting to mask it by pointing out the flaw in others doesn't neutralize the fact that your (insert fanboy flavor of choice) manufacture is not without sin.

Even our heralded Teutonic BMW designers held on to the same head cracker in the 5 series 6 cylinder ..plagued them from the Bavaria forward to some point where someone hung the clown responsible or he retired.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

I was gonna reply to Defeckt...but I've thought better of it. People around here internalize things way too much.

Sorry Toby Keith isn't your style, dude. Good luck in your future endeavors!

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar
FoMoCo redesigning their garbage DPFE censors 12 times in 15 years and yet not doing a recall


A failed DPFE sensor is not a safety issue, so it is very unlikely that there would have been a recall for it.

I only know of two DPFE designs, the original metal one and the replacement plastic one. I never had any trouble with the one on my '95 Contour nor my '96 Contour, but the '95 Contour eventually needed a new one at around 200k (I got rid of that car at 120k).

 

[Herz]

Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar


I was gonna reply to Defeckt...but I've thought better of it. People around here internalize things way too much.

Sorry Toby Keith isn't your style, dude. Good luck in your future endeavors!


sent you a pm I did see your original reply.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
A failed DPFE sensor is not a safety issue, so it is very unlikely that there would have been a recall for it.

I only know of two DPFE designs, the original metal one and the replacement plastic one.

No, you're right it's not a safety issue. But it is about doing the right thing by people who make your product their largest purchase (with the exception of a home). The fact that I failed emissions testing and wasted $$$ at a Ford dealership to troubleshoot it was enough to sour me on it, especially as it is a known issue on Ranger trucks going back to the mid-90's. The dealer in question replaced the metal one with metal redesigns in '02 & '03; it was eventually replaced with a plastic knock-off from CSK.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Cant speak for others, but for me, absolutely not. I said it before and I'll say it again, it's a personal choice and I dont begrudge anyone how they choose to spend their own cash.

You're an import basher?

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
But look back through this or any other domestic/import thread and you'll notice that many make comments like I refered to. To them it's not about a car, it's about how the world perceives them. It's not about transportation, it's about "outdoing the Joneses".

I disagree. I think they really do believe imports are better. They may be bandwagoning but the only people they seek to outdo are domestic owners, which they do because they want to be on the "right" side.

Import bashers, meanwhile, tend to act like THEY are on the right side and their opponents are deluded because American cars are well built and imports are tin cans.

Again, the problem is no better or worse on either side. It plays out differently but the cause is the same: categorical thinking, bandwagoning, us-versus-them, etc.

 

[brianl703]

On my '95 Contour it threw a check engine light (a friend of mine owns the car now, he asked me to look at it), I scanned it for codes, code pointed to the DPFE sensor, he got a replacement for $60 and it took 15 minutes to put it in. Code gone, problem fixed.

I'm sorry, I just don't see a $60, non safety-critical part that takes 15 minutes to replace to be worthy of a recall.

Ford had other issues that WERE worthy of a recall, such as the headlight/foglight problem on some of the late 80s/early 90s models.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

The problem is that it wasn't a "15 minute fix" and "$60" in my situation...and that's the sort of thing I take into account when I go buy a new car. The ISS (intermediate steering shaft) that failed on my G6 isn't safety issue either...it just sounded like it. But again, GM knows this is an issue (in fact, they have "kit" for lubing it at the dealership) and won't fix these things under warranty. Should G6, Aura, Malibu, Grand Prix and Impala vehicles with less than 50K miles have issues like that? I mean, a tech gets under the steering column and squirts grease between the shafts and the owner is told this is most likely an "ongoing" problem that will have to be addressed every 30-50K miles? Is that reasonable? Really? Just to note: I told the dealer to forget it, went to Schucks and bought a $3 can of white lithium grease; saved me who knows how much from GM.

And lastly, for everyone's benefit that thinks I'm bashing domestics: I HAVE FOUR DOMESTIC CARS! My issues with my domestic vehicles are based upon real problems, not perceptions. I've already given GM & Chrysler money twice (when I bought my cars and when my taxes went to bail them out)...why should I continue to do this?

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar
The problem is that it wasn't a "15 minute fix" and "$60" in my situation...and that's the sort of thing I take into account when I go buy a new car.


Don't forget that it took around 200k miles for it happen on mine.

It really sounds to me that you had a problem with how the dealership handled the repair of your DPFE sensor, especially their having charged you a diagnosis fee for a known problem sensor.