Holy domestic bashing!

[cchase]

That is all. I just wanted to throw that out there. What's going on with the board recently?

I'm only saying it so that maybe people will take some time to temper their responses. Doesn't make a new member feel very welcome when so many threads have so much negativity in them! Everyone has different tastes, they shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome.

 

[d00df00d]

I haven't seen too much "domestic" bashing lately. I see people bashing specific brands and cars, but that's normal and every brand gets its share.

Then again, maybe I've had my head in the sand...

Could you post some examples?

 

[cchase]

The Toyota Yaris thread in the Auto General Topics is the one that moved me to post this. Kind of ironic when the original topic was about someones displeasure with an import, now that I think of it.

Stating opinions as facts, that's where I drew the line in my head.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Actually, I've noticed the opposite lately: anti-China, anti-Germany...so many seem to think that the answer to our economic problems is circa-1925 protectionism.

As I said in another recent thread, BITOG isn't American: It's international. It'd be nice if people remembered that before they turn the Toby Keith up.

 

[cchase]

Here are some recent gems from the Yaris thread:

Quote:
Sounds like someone has been brainwashed by the Chevy commercials.


Quote:
The domestics still can't build anything except throw-away, recycle-mobiles when it comes to subcompacts.


Quote:
If you want to hear a rattle trap, take a domestic subcompact for a drive sometime. Talk about pieces of junk!!!


Quote:
Spoken like someone who has blindly never owned an import.
I've never met anyone who bought a Honda or Toyota after owning an American car and thought the import was lesser quality.
They rarely go back to American junk.

 

[d00df00d]

In the Yaris thread, it seems the post that started it all was this:

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
After all the jobs this country has lost, people are still considering imported junk? For about 17K, you can buy a new end of the year Malibu which is better than anything Toyota makes (IMO), is American made by union workers, and has an 80% domestic parts content. And when you eventually need parts for it, they will be cheaper and more available.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1710880/

No one had drawn things along foreign/domestic lines prior to this post. The words "import" and "domestic" don't even appear before it...

 

[cchase]

I agree, that was a ridiculous statement but if people had wisdom they would just leave it alone instead of feeding the fire.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Some people are passionate about their distaste for domestics, what can you do? Throw in tax-payer funded bailouts to two of the "Big Three" and you get some really ticked-off people.

I own four American cars, but the only one that has been trouble free is the one that is based on a Toyota platform (but built by American workers). And naturally, the factory (NUMMI) where that car was built has been shut down (brilliant). That said, I generally don't go screaming around about the problems with my other cars; but I'm not happy with 'em and I will factor that in with my next purchase.

Seriously, I'm not going to roll the dice with another Ford, Chevy or Dodge just because Howie Long claims that things have changed. Sorry, they had their chance(s)...

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

Funny how you missed a few.

What a piece of [censored]!... now I don't doubt that this car being a toyota would be bullet proof if maintained. But come on, the exterior looks aren't too bad but the interior is for the birds, the instrument panel is in the middle of the dash. I feel like I'm driving some kind of cartoon car. Very uncomfortable.


Honestly what did you expect from a car that sells for $12-13k new when the average new car sells for $24k. You got exactly what you paid for.

The Echo I rented a few years back was a total piece of [censored]...I have never driven anything that bad since. The Versa is WORLDS ahead of that car and actually costs less. That is why there is a $750 cash back on the Yaris now at Toyota dealers.

After all the jobs this country has lost, people are still considering imported junk? For about 17K, you can buy a new end of the year Malibu which is better than anything Toyota makes (IMO), is American made by union workers, and has an 80% domestic parts content. And when you eventually need parts for it, they will be cheaper and more available.

 

[cchase]

Let me go on a bit of a tangent for a moment.

To me it's as simple as this.

Many people don't like anything from brand X. It's perfectly acceptable in my mind for someone to say "I don't like vehicles from brand X". It's a totally different matter when they make blanket statements.

I personally own two domestics (well, one isn't actually a domestic in a true sense of the word) but I consider myself an automotive enthusiast, I just happen to own two GM products.

I think it's incredibly close-minded to say I would "never" buy something from brand X just because it's brand X.


Look at the broad picture. Many people on this board own domestic vehicles. Many people own imports. It seems the most bashing goes on when comparing American to Japanese cars. Probably close to half the vehicles on the road in this country today are domestics if you look at market share. So everytime someone posts something about how "all American stuff is junk", they're essentially insulting nearly half the people in the country (saying they bought a piece of junk) and probably a fair amount of people on the board.

My original point was just that people should consider things like that before they post. The people that spent their hard earned money on a certain product don't want to be called a fool by someone else. No one wants to be told they bought a piece of junk, especially if they like it.

I don't take any offense to these comments, but I'm just saying it does get old to read through it time after time every time an American car comes back with a poor UOA (sifting through a certain members posts comes to mind).

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Funny how you missed a few.

What a piece of [censored]!... now I don't doubt that this car being a toyota would be bullet proof if maintained. But come on, the exterior looks aren't too bad but the interior is for the birds, the instrument panel is in the middle of the dash. I feel like I'm driving some kind of cartoon car. Very uncomfortable.


Honestly what did you expect from a car that sells for $12-13k new when the average new car sells for $24k. You got exactly what you paid for.

The Echo I rented a few years back was a total piece of [censored]...I have never driven anything that bad since. The Versa is WORLDS ahead of that car and actually costs less. That is why there is a $750 cash back on the Yaris now at Toyota dealers.

After all the jobs this country has lost, people are still considering imported junk? For about 17K, you can buy a new end of the year Malibu which is better than anything Toyota makes (IMO), is American made by union workers, and has an 80% domestic parts content. And when you eventually need parts for it, they will be cheaper and more available.



Thanks for posting. I didn't say there was no bashing of any other products out there, especially imports, because there is. But the general underlying theme I see on these boards is very anti-domestic in an insulting tone.

These are just my observations. Just the "feeling" I get.

Also some of those posts don't call Japanese cars as a blanket statement "junk". Two just state a posters displeasure with a specific vehicle they drove, which is fine in my mind. Another just says it's a cheap car, don't expect luxury. Not a bash as I see it.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: cchase

I think it's incredibly close-minded to say I would "never" buy something from brand X just because it's brand X.




What if you've had a lot of problems with vehicles from brand X? You'd still buy another one and expect different results? Isn't that the definition of insanity?

And that goes for ANY brand of ANY consumer product. I've seen it posted here a few times that someone will never buy another Honda because they had a ton of problems with theirs.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: cchase

I think it's incredibly close-minded to say I would "never" buy something from brand X just because it's brand X.




What if you've had a lot of problems with vehicles from brand X? You'd still buy another one and expect different results? Isn't that the definition of insanity?

And that goes for ANY brand of ANY consumer product. I've seen it posted here a few times that someone will never buy another Honda because they had a ton of problems with theirs.



If I had many problems with a certain vehicle it might make me shy away from purchasing another in the near term. Certainly not forever. It's always wise to take a look at all your options when buying a car. Many brands have had 1 model disasters, imports and domestics alike.

 

[The_Jeff]

There's a cognitive dissonance that happens with many when their second most expensive decision, besides their house, can be "proven" to have not been the right one... on objective and subjective criteria. This triggers an emotional response.

I am also sick of it. There are those who keep a list of other usernames in their heads as being so-and-so "fanboys" or enemies or sparring partners etc. So they have to reply to every reply as to not lose the "battle". Such angst!

Maybe I have a repressed memory of my dad not letting me have a car in high school/ college because he hated Massachusetts auto insurance companies and wanted to stick it to them by not allowing me to pay premiums. Or my years of a paper route bicycling. Or walking to elementary school. I think anything with wheels and an engine is a fascinating luxury! "Oh, you chose a car to drive to work. Fantastic!"

 

[saberz]

I'll add my 2 cents on this. Every manufacture and every car has problems. Some are more pronounced than others.

I personally have owned GM(Chevy) and Jeep(Chrysler). My Jeep was probably the most rock solid vehicle I've owned. My Chevy had a few quirks which piled up and turned out to be just the BCM module which fixed all of them.

When I was shopping for a used car/truck, Chevy was my first choice as I didn't have severe problems just slightly annoying ones. I loved the Equinox and am interested in the Malibu(new ones can be had for about 11k-12k off rental with 18k miles on em for 2008 and 2009). Once everything settles down in terms of finding a home/apartment I will be looking into one of those two for a reliable and economical vehicle, which both are more so than my Xterra.

I had a disdain for all things Ford for a very long time due to experiences with them and seeing problems with them first hand at my friends shop and friends who have owned em except a few. Now however I am very interested in a Ford Fusion as well, which also sells for cheap just like the Malibu off rental. It's give or take people, flavor of the month etc.

To close, keep it simple. If you like brand X, stick with it and more power to you. If you don't like Brand Y you can voice it, but keep it factual not opinion based.

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

Renting one of the cheapest cars available,then pointing out how every other car costing thousands more,can beat it,seems like an unfair comparison.
I bought mine when gas was $4 a gallon.
If gas prices were cheaper,I most likely would have bought the scion xb.
I wanted the cheapest car I could find,that wouldn't cost a fortune to repair.

Would I like to drive a Hemi Charger,or a Camaro,or a Corvette?
I sure would,but not for $40,000+

American car companies have been getting smoked for years by imports that can be bought cheaply and outlast their counterparts in reliability.

When America builds me a Camaro for $15,900 out the door,I'll buy one.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: cchase
I agree, that was a ridiculous statement but if people had wisdom they would just leave it alone instead of feeding the fire.

Indeed. I would just say -- and judging by the rest of this thread, I think most would agree -- that it's better to define the problem as brand/country bashing in general, rather than domestic/import bashing.

It goes along with what you say here (rather well, IMO):
Originally Posted By: cchase
If I had many problems with a certain vehicle it might make me shy away from purchasing another in the near term. Certainly not forever. It's always wise to take a look at all your options when buying a car.

Being categorical is always stupid no matter what side you're on.

Yet, we all tend to be categorical by nature. It's how we evolved. The indelible stamp of our lowly origins and what not.

Plus, since we create these categories based on opinion and anecdotes rather than robust and objectively verifiable evidence, the only way to defend them is by shouting and rhetoric. That's why when someone starts it, others are liable to chime in.

Everyone's gotta be mindful of it and strive to overcome it.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Renting one of the cheapest cars available,then pointing out how every other car costing thousands more,can beat it,seems like an unfair comparison.
I bought mine when gas was $4 a gallon.
If gas prices were cheaper,I most likely would have bought the scion xb.
I wanted the cheapest car I could find,that wouldn't cost a fortune to repair.

Would I like to drive a Hemi Charger,or a Camaro,or a Corvette?
I sure would,but not for $40,000+

American car companies have been getting smoked for years by imports that can be bought cheaply and outlast their counterparts in reliability.

When America builds me a Camaro for $15,900 out the door,I'll buy one.


I'm not sure where you're going with what you're saying.

This is kind of unrelated, but let's not forget that GM's market share is still somewhere around 20% and that Ford is about 16%. It means collectively over 1/3 of the people in this country are driving around in Fords and Chevys.

I never quite know what people mean when they say they are getting "smoked" by the competition, even if they are losing market share, they still have a large portion of it.

 

[saberz]

In essence their market share has fallen or decreased slowly over a 10 year span is what he is getting at.

I am a firm believer of the Camaro, Mustang sporty muscle cars should be a bit more affordable. Nothing wrong with seeing a 50+ year old guy driving a Camaro SS, but if you made it more affordable and marketed it at the people who buy the tC's, who by the Evo's, and all the import tuner crowd you'd probably have more sales. As it stands the Camaro at near top trim package is almost at cost of a Vette.

Need a better marketing and pricing structure to appeal to as many age demographics as possible.

And to add one more note, why are more sales more important than a few sales of a higher priced vehicle.

More sales, means more work, longer sustainability in keeping workers. Would you rather sell 1 car, or 200 cars?

 

[Johnny]

I've been around all of this since 2002. Getting emotional and bashing brand xyz oil or xyz car brand does not bother me at all, we all have our opinions about each, although some opinions or misguided. But still, we all have opinions. What does bother me is when opinions turn in to personal attacks on another members character and the name calling begins. I have every right to disagree with anyone that does not like my oil or vehicle choice, but I do not have the right to slander that person for doing so.