High Performance Lubricants PDS

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by High Performance Lubricants
I do not license any of our oils with the API. That will fundamentally put you within the same chemical box as commodity products. Where other people stop is where we begin. We will start with a licensable ad pack from a top tier additive manufacturer put into very high quality base oils and then improve the performance of the lubricants from there, first in the lab and then and more importantly in service. The API license can certainly isolate an inferior product and it does that well. On the flip side it does not reward someone who chooses to produce something to a higher level of performance than a commodity type product. This too will be true with the PCMO products we will be releasing soon. Our products will not be for everyone. But for those who are looking for a legitimate high performing oil we will get along really well.

David - High Performance Lubricants

Yeah that's the explanation usually given. No problem, I just think it is better to point that out to a potential customer. I don't think what you posted made it clear that you recommend the oil for when those licenses are required, that's all.

 

[4WD]

That's different from Advanced Lubrication Specialties ?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by 4WD
That's different from Advanced Lubrication Specialties ?


Yes. Advanced Lubrication Inc. is the retail arm of High Performance Lubricants.

https://www.advlubrication.com/

 

[Cacciatore]

Any recommendations for a high performance racing diesel oil? Currently using Amsoil Dominator 20W-50. Application is an ISB 6.7L Cummins bored .020" over and runs about 1400hp at the crank on fuel only. Runs nitrous occasionally as well.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

I would recommend our HDMO 20w50 under the assumption that everything looks fine now. If there are any issues we can talk about those. We have experience in some stout quad turbo diesel tractor pulling applications.

David

Originally Posted by Cacciatore
Any recommendations for a high performance racing diesel oil? Currently using Amsoil Dominator 20W-50. Application is an ISB 6.7L Cummins bored .020" over and runs about 1400hp at the crank on fuel only. Runs nitrous occasionally as well.

 

[oakaro68]

HPL,

Since all the modern trucks are calling for CK4 and your oil is CI4, I'm wondering what affects your oil will have on DPF/SCR/etc. Have you done much testing on this?

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Originally Posted by oakaro68
HPL,

Since all the modern trucks are calling for CK4 and your oil is CI4, I'm wondering what affects your oil will have on DPF/SCR/etc. Have you done much testing on this?


Thank you for the question.

The answer is very little. The reason, our experience in Drag racing has taught us a lot about balancing additives to promote cylinder sealing. Through lots of different combinations to get there we have 5 total pro stock car and motorcycle championships under our belt already with some excellent teams. Crankcase blowby is measured in cfm or manifold vacuum is measured on the dyno or down the track and will tell you how good the ring seal is. A balanced ad pack coupled with good quality oil nets us a respectable NOACK of 7.1 on our 15W40. I would maintain that if the oil is in the pan where it should be, you will have little effect on the downstream after treatment. As far as testing we have done a field study with a relatively small sample size of vehicles (400) using our 15w40. These 400 were compared to roughly 400 other vehicles using a major branded 15W40 in the same service within 100 miles of each other over a 2 year period. The end result was opposite of what you would expect. The location using our oil had zero emission after treatment issues. The second location had 4 issues with emission after treatment in the same timeframe. Do not hear me saying that this was an oil issue for certain I am merely saying this was the end result. I would have expected any after treatment issues to show themselves in that timeframe. Ultimately all 800 vehicles ended up on our 15W40 and we never experienced emission after treatment issues. I am certainly comfortable enough with the experience to make the statement that I believe we would have little to no impact.

This being said, Even though I have spent a lot of my life on this product line and have the ultimate confidence in it I do not expect that everyone will share my opinion. Therefore we do have a PCMO product line and we do also make a line of CK-4 based products as well. I will say that our HDMO product line is more modified relative to our PCMO or CK-4 products and I would maintain the HDMO's will last longer in service. Nonetheless we still have the complete lines to offer for those who would prefer those products. Also to be clear I am here on BITOG because I, like many others here have a passion for Motor oils. I posted a PDS when someone in a UOA thread said they would like to see one. I do not mind answering questions as to why I chose to produce the products the way we do. I am not here to pimp our products nor bash others.

Thank you again for your question.

David - High Performance Lubricants

 

[oakaro68]

Originally Posted by High Performance Lubricants
Originally Posted by oakaro68
HPL,

Since all the modern trucks are calling for CK4 and your oil is CI4, I'm wondering what affects your oil will have on DPF/SCR/etc. Have you done much testing on this?


Thank you for the question.

The answer is very little. The reason, our experience in Drag racing has taught us a lot about balancing additives to promote cylinder sealing. Through lots of different combinations to get there we have 5 total pro stock car and motorcycle championships under our belt already with some excellent teams. Crankcase blowby is measured in cfm or manifold vacuum is measured on the dyno or down the track and will tell you how good the ring seal is. A balanced ad pack coupled with good quality oil nets us a respectable NOACK of 7.1 on our 15W40. I would maintain that if the oil is in the pan where it should be, you will have little effect on the downstream after treatment. As far as testing we have done a field study with a relatively small sample size of vehicles (400) using our 15w40. These 400 were compared to roughly 400 other vehicles using a major branded 15W40 in the same service within 100 miles of each other over a 2 year period. The end result was opposite of what you would expect. The location using our oil had zero emission after treatment issues. The second location had 4 issues with emission after treatment in the same timeframe. Do not hear me saying that this was an oil issue for certain I am merely saying this was the end result. I would have expected any after treatment issues to show themselves in that timeframe. Ultimately all 800 vehicles ended up on our 15W40 and we never experienced emission after treatment issues. I am certainly comfortable enough with the experience to make the statement that I believe we would have little to no impact.

This being said, Even though I have spent a lot of my life on this product line and have the ultimate confidence in it I do not expect that everyone will share my opinion. Therefore we do have a PCMO product line and we do also make a line of CK-4 based products as well. I will say that our HDMO product line is more modified relative to our PCMO or CK-4 products and I would maintain the HDMO's will last longer in service. Nonetheless we still have the complete lines to offer for those who would prefer those products. Also to be clear I am here on BITOG because I, like many others here have a passion for Motor oils. I posted a PDS when someone in a UOA thread said they would like to see one. I do not mind answering questions as to why I chose to produce the products the way we do. I am not here to pimp our products nor bash others.

Thank you again for your question.

David - High Performance Lubricants

David, thanks for the response. That's awesome to hear what goes on behind the scenes in the oil industry.

Can you elaborate at all when you say the hdmo oil is more modified than your ck4 products? I'm assuming this would be a good thing but someone like me with no oil education, other than reading bitog of course for a few years, is curious because of the claims made with ck4 in reducing wear and oxidation and other nifty goodies. Is your ck4 oil a "watered down" version of your hdmo?

 

[LeoStrop]

Hey David, thank you for taking your time to share a bit of your knowledge here on BITOG.

Like @oakaro68 asked, i would also like to know your opinion on Cl-4 vs CK-4.

I wish i could buy this around here!

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Our CI4 Plus/SL based products and CK4 products each start with their own respective ad packs. We use only top tier additive chemistry and increase the performance of the product from there. As mentioned earlier we build our oils to performance specs greater than the levels required to produce an API Licensed product. We clearly state meets or exceeds when addressing specifications on our PDS. One of the benefits to this approach is that we can offer an extensive range of viscosities which cover an extreme range of applications rather than just the viscosities addressed by the license.

Comparison of the Original CI4 plus chemistry to CK-4 is somewhat of a lengthy subject to cover completely. The short version is you can still blend a CI4 plus/SL product line which has elevated SAPS levels. The backwards compatibility of CJ-4 oils to CI-4 plus did not mean they were equal since CI-4 plus had a higher ceiling for SAPS. For that reason we chose to not produce a CJ-4 product. CK-4 is certainly a step in the right direction and once again we have made the decision to blend a finished product to a higher performance level starting with CK-4 chemistry. I personally prefer to use our HDMO formulas in every diesel within our company regardless of model year and with or without after treatment.




Originally Posted by oakaro68
Originally Posted by High Performance Lubricants
Originally Posted by oakaro68
HPL,

Since all the modern trucks are calling for CK4 and your oil is CI4, I'm wondering what affects your oil will have on DPF/SCR/etc. Have you done much testing on this?


Thank you for the question.

The answer is very little. The reason, our experience in Drag racing has taught us a lot about balancing additives to promote cylinder sealing. Through lots of different combinations to get there we have 5 total pro stock car and motorcycle championships under our belt already with some excellent teams. Crankcase blowby is measured in cfm or manifold vacuum is measured on the dyno or down the track and will tell you how good the ring seal is. A balanced ad pack coupled with good quality oil nets us a respectable NOACK of 7.1 on our 15W40. I would maintain that if the oil is in the pan where it should be, you will have little effect on the downstream after treatment. As far as testing we have done a field study with a relatively small sample size of vehicles (400) using our 15w40. These 400 were compared to roughly 400 other vehicles using a major branded 15W40 in the same service within 100 miles of each other over a 2 year period. The end result was opposite of what you would expect. The location using our oil had zero emission after treatment issues. The second location had 4 issues with emission after treatment in the same timeframe. Do not hear me saying that this was an oil issue for certain I am merely saying this was the end result. I would have expected any after treatment issues to show themselves in that timeframe. Ultimately all 800 vehicles ended up on our 15W40 and we never experienced emission after treatment issues. I am certainly comfortable enough with the experience to make the statement that I believe we would have little to no impact.

This being said, Even though I have spent a lot of my life on this product line and have the ultimate confidence in it I do not expect that everyone will share my opinion. Therefore we do have a PCMO product line and we do also make a line of CK-4 based products as well. I will say that our HDMO product line is more modified relative to our PCMO or CK-4 products and I would maintain the HDMO's will last longer in service. Nonetheless we still have the complete lines to offer for those who would prefer those products. Also to be clear I am here on BITOG because I, like many others here have a passion for Motor oils. I posted a PDS when someone in a UOA thread said they would like to see one. I do not mind answering questions as to why I chose to produce the products the way we do. I am not here to pimp our products nor bash others.

Thank you again for your question.

David - High Performance Lubricants

David, thanks for the response. That's awesome to hear what goes on behind the scenes in the oil industry.

Can you elaborate at all when you say the hdmo oil is more modified than your ck4 products? I'm assuming this would be a good thing but someone like me with no oil education, other than reading bitog of course for a few years, is curious because of the claims made with ck4 in reducing wear and oxidation and other nifty goodies. Is your ck4 oil a "watered down" version of your hdmo?

 

[chajla]

how come hths of 15w40 is lower than 10w40 and 20w40 lower still? straight 40 grade is lower than 10w40?

 

[JavierH19]

whys the hths for your straight 20 lower at 2.7 compared to 2.9 on your 10w-20 on the non hd series.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Base oils and VI Improvers matter with respect to HTHS. I choose the best materials for the appropriate oils. We then measure and report the results.

 

[Astro14]

I think the real question is, “why is the HTHS on your (insert oil here) so much better than the HTHS on comparable products from other companies?”

 

[chajla]

so it appears you dont particularly care about hths values, they are a result of other considerations?

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

I formulate by looking at the whole picture and certainly would not forgo something beneficial to chase a HTHS value.