High Copper in oil analysis Ford Explorer 4.8 V8

[Bushmasterdcm]

Hi all!
Well I had a oil analysis done on the wifes Explorer and I am pleased with the results however copper seems to be the only thing reading high. What would cause this? Is the engine still breaking in? Valve guides? I used Amsoil 7500 5w-20 Here are the numbers.

Alum 2
Chrom 0
Iron 9
Copper 37
Lead 1
Tin 0
Moly 4
Nick 0
Mang 5
Silver 0
Titan 0
Pot 0
Boron 0
Sil 22
Sodium 3
Cal 3381
Mag 16
Pho 704
Kinc 891
Bar 1


Vis@210F 54.5
FP @ 420
Fuel 0.5
Antifreeze 0
Water 0
Insolubles 0.3

Rick

 

[Ray H]

It would help to know the total miles on this engine and the total miles on the sampled oil.

 

[Bushmasterdcm]

Sorry, Total miles on truck- 19000mi
Total miles on oil- 6000

 

[T-Keith]

What kind of air filter do you have? Usually when silicone and copper are high it's because of a filtration problem.

 

[Whimsey]

Yes, your copper seems very high for that engine. I have that engine(I assume you meant the 4.6L V-8) in my 2002 F-150 and with only about 2500 miles on the oil and 10,000 on the truck my copper was 1. That was using Motorcraft 5W-20. My wife has a 2002 Explorer with the 4.0L V-6 and her copper has run from 4-7 at approx 5,000 mile OCI intervals. Do you have a heavy duty towing package? If so then maybe you have an oil cooler and the copper is leaching from that

. Who was the lab? It might just be fluke. I would definitely do an UOA on your next sample and have a Blackstone/Dyson analysis package done. That way if you have any questions you can contact Terry Dyson(site sponsor)and discuss with him your concerns. You can also send this analysis to Terry for a fee and he'll help you.

Whimsey

 

[Patman]

Even with higher than normal readings here for silicon, and higher copper, the rest of the wear numbers look very good so I don't think there is a problem here.

 

[Bushmasterdcm]

Yes you right! I ment 4.6L V8 and it dose have a towing package. I used Blackstone for analysis and it has a Motorcraft air filter. This is the second analysis I have done the first was with Motorcraft 5w-20 and copper was consistant at 6 ppm per 1000 miles. So is this common with oilcoolers and is it any thing to be alarmed about?

Thanks!

 

[Al]

I think it looks good. Look for the copper and silicon to go down. Check your intake filter and the duct to the intake manifold.

 

[MolaKule]

For 19,000 miles you're in pretty good shape. Look for a downward trend in the UOA's as time progresses.

I would go with <= 5k OCI's until I saw the iron and copper trend downward, or switch to Motorcraft 5W20.

 

[Robbie Alexander]

Yeah, MolaKule, but even with an OILcooler?

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
-*-*I would go with strong>

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[dropitby]

MolaKule you think Motorcraft oil is better than AMSOIL.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Am I the only one who is never really concerned about copper unless it is accompanied with a proportionate amount of tin?

---

You're not alone, I too am not overly concerned with the presence of copper, since we've seen lots of reports on here with very high copper but yet the other wear metals are very low, so it's obvious that copper can float around your engine without creating more wear.

I'm fully prepared to see 100ppm of copper in my first 5k UOA from my LS1 Corvette. But I also expect the other wear metals to be reasonably low so if that's the case, the high copper will not concern me since I know it'll subside as the engine gets older.

 

[Whimsey]

Patman,

In all honesty you can't compare the copper wear numbers in a GM engine to a Ford Engine. The GM engines just seem to shed a lot of copper compared to Ford Modular engines. Bushmasterdcm's Ford's modular seems to have a much higher copper level than other Ford Modular engines shown. Don't know why unless there is an oil cooler.

Whimsey

 

[Bror Jace]

Am I the only one who is never really concerned about copper unless it is accompanied with a proportionate amount of tin?

Bronze (and brass) is an alloy composed for copper and tin and is often used in valve guides ... and occasionally as a component in bearings.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Whimsey:
Patman,

In all honesty you can't compare the copper wear numbers in a GM engine to a Ford Engine. The GM engines just seem to shed a lot of copper compared to Ford Modular engines. Bushmasterdcm's Ford's modular seems to have a much higher copper level than other Ford Modular engines shown. Don't know why unless there is an oil cooler.

Whimsey

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True, but I still think that it's not something to worry about when the other metals look like this:


Alum 2
Chrom 0
Iron 9
Lead 1
Tin 0

 

[Chris B.]

Well maybe the part made of copper has a problem?? "out of balance" or something.

 

[Bror Jace]

Can anyone tell me of a modern internal engine component made of copper instead of the harder brass or bronze which will show tin as well?

--- Bror Jace

 

[fuel tanker man]

Just a layman wondering...

Could there be an element in the Amsoil that is "washing" copper from the oil cooler's passageways?

Dan

 

[MolaKule]

I don't see where an oil cooler has any bearing here.

quote:

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MolaKule you think Motorcraft oil is better than AMSOIL.

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Yes. I think the Motorcraft formulation is better than the Amsoil GIII XL formulation.

 

[Don Stevens]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
/QUOTE]Yes. I think the Motorcraft formulation is better than the Amsoil GIII XL formulation. [/QB]

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This is a bit of a surprise as the numbers from this particular sample look very good (except the copper). I have a sample of the XL-7500 at the lab right now on my 2002 4.6L so we'll see how my numbers look when I get the results.

My 99 4.6 used up the Motorcraft 5W20 pretty quick.

Don