Hemi Tick
- Thread starter clinebarger
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Originally Posted by P10crew
Also what all mopar vehicles have this problem?
2009+ 5.7 and 6.4 hemi for the most part. Coincidentally, around the time they introduced VVT/VCT (whatever you want to call it) as well.
Also what all mopar vehicles have this problem?
2009+ 5.7 and 6.4 hemi for the most part. Coincidentally, around the time they introduced VVT/VCT (whatever you want to call it) as well.
Originally Posted by mattd
Originally Posted by leviksu
Just bought a 2013 Hemi Ram with 84k miles on it. Valvetrain seems noisy and I think I hear the infamous tick, but I'm not sure. I've had it at 2 shops (one was the dealer I bought it from) but they said there weren't any problems. Of course all the dealer did was pull codes.
Here's a vid of the engine running warmed up. Do you think this is a tick?
I'm hearing that Redline 5w30 with a 8 to 10k OCI is a good idea. Any other suggestions? The dealer did an oil change when it was traded, so I will likely wait a few thousand at least to change it. Planning to do Blackstone analysis each change.
Anyway, thanks.
IMO, it Is a bit noisy especially on the drivers side. Are you sure there are no exhaust manifold leaks? Do you have any running concerns? Insufficient valve lift will show its face more under high engine load.
Thanks man. I think I hear manifold bolts on the pass side on cold start, but I haven't noticed it on dr side. Neither tech said anything about manifolds, but I don't think they were listening for that either. I guess I'll have to explore that more.
I did use a mechanic's stethoscope to listen to various spots on the valve covers and valve cover bolts to try to find lifter noise louder in one spot than another. Couldn't find any differences in how loud the tick is.6
No issues with CEL or power loss. Pulls like a mule to redline; done that a few dozen times.
Probably just gonna throw some high quality 5w30 at it and see if I can tell a difference.
Originally Posted by leviksu
Just bought a 2013 Hemi Ram with 84k miles on it. Valvetrain seems noisy and I think I hear the infamous tick, but I'm not sure. I've had it at 2 shops (one was the dealer I bought it from) but they said there weren't any problems. Of course all the dealer did was pull codes.
Here's a vid of the engine running warmed up. Do you think this is a tick?
I'm hearing that Redline 5w30 with a 8 to 10k OCI is a good idea. Any other suggestions? The dealer did an oil change when it was traded, so I will likely wait a few thousand at least to change it. Planning to do Blackstone analysis each change.
Anyway, thanks.
IMO, it Is a bit noisy especially on the drivers side. Are you sure there are no exhaust manifold leaks? Do you have any running concerns? Insufficient valve lift will show its face more under high engine load.
Thanks man. I think I hear manifold bolts on the pass side on cold start, but I haven't noticed it on dr side. Neither tech said anything about manifolds, but I don't think they were listening for that either. I guess I'll have to explore that more.
I did use a mechanic's stethoscope to listen to various spots on the valve covers and valve cover bolts to try to find lifter noise louder in one spot than another. Couldn't find any differences in how loud the tick is.6
No issues with CEL or power loss. Pulls like a mule to redline; done that a few dozen times.
Probably just gonna throw some high quality 5w30 at it and see if I can tell a difference.
Cline, do you have to break in new roller cams like the old flat tappets cams? 2000-2500 rpm for 20 minutes, no idle?
spasm3.....Once oil pressure is built, I rev the engine to 1500 rpm for a couple minutes. But not for break-in. I do it so "splash lube" gets to the Cam & Lifter Yokes/Rollers.
Roller cams don't require break-in, I coat the cam lobes, Lifter bodies & Rollers, in Lubriplate 105 during assembly......Also put a dap on each valve stem & upper pushrod ball.
Roller cams don't require break-in, I coat the cam lobes, Lifter bodies & Rollers, in Lubriplate 105 during assembly......Also put a dap on each valve stem & upper pushrod ball.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
The appearance hasn't changed, But the Part Numbers have along with the way the lifters are packaged! They were sold in racks of 4 with the plastic guides for around $110 per rack, Part#'s 53021726BC & 53021728BC.....Then those got superseded to part#'s 05038785AD & 05038786AD for @ $130 per rack.
Now the lifters are sold individually & the cost has skyrocketed!!!!!!!
5038787AD for Non-MDS, My cost $49.87 each
5038788AD for MDS, My cost $106.50
This also answers the question of why owner didn't want to replace all the lifters.....$1,250.96 my cost for all 16 lifters with a Retail of $1,668.00, Not that I charge full suggested retail...I do cost + 20% + tax.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/92GTTt7.jpg "[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]")
Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
The appearance hasn't changed, But the Part Numbers have along with the way the lifters are packaged! They were sold in racks of 4 with the plastic guides for around $110 per rack, Part#'s 53021726BC & 53021728BC.....Then those got superseded to part#'s 05038785AD & 05038786AD for @ $130 per rack.
Now the lifters are sold individually & the cost has skyrocketed!!!!!!!
5038787AD for Non-MDS, My cost $49.87 each
5038788AD for MDS, My cost $106.50
This also answers the question of why owner didn't want to replace all the lifters.....$1,250.96 my cost for all 16 lifters with a Retail of $1,668.00, Not that I charge full suggested retail...I do cost + 20% + tax.
Originally Posted by mattd
That owner is one brave soul not replacing the rest of those lifters. I'll bet had you shown him a dynamic compression test you would have seen very low readings. Especially snap throttle.
I have a hard time with dynamic compression testing on these (Electronic Throttle Bodies).....The "Nannies" don't like you to have full control of the throttle blade.
I would have had to do comparisons with other cylinders to prove it out in my head. With this being a pattern failure, It was quicker to pull the cover as I was 95% sure of the issue before I even installed the vacuum gauge.
I know you know where I'm coming from
That owner is one brave soul not replacing the rest of those lifters. I'll bet had you shown him a dynamic compression test you would have seen very low readings. Especially snap throttle.
I have a hard time with dynamic compression testing on these (Electronic Throttle Bodies).....The "Nannies" don't like you to have full control of the throttle blade.
I would have had to do comparisons with other cylinders to prove it out in my head. With this being a pattern failure, It was quicker to pull the cover as I was 95% sure of the issue before I even installed the vacuum gauge.
I know you know where I'm coming from
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
The appearance hasn't changed, But the Part Numbers have along with the way the lifters are packaged! They were sold in racks of 4 with the plastic guides for around $110 per rack, Part#'s 53021726BC & 53021728BC.....Then those got superseded to part#'s 05038785AD & 05038786AD for @ $130 per rack.
Now the lifters are sold individually & the cost has skyrocketed!!!!!!!
5038787AD for Non-MDS, My cost $49.87 each
5038788AD for MDS, My cost $106.50
This also answers the question of why owner didn't want to replace all the lifters.....$1,250.96 my cost for all 16 lifters with a Retail of $1,668.00, Not that I charge full suggested retail...I do cost + 20% + tax.
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/03/full-83582-42272-d3af1dc1_4635_4f1d_97e7_8f58def5a5c7.png "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/03/full-83582-42273-9a38d679_1a85_49f9_87fe_299134b7df0a.png "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
The appearance hasn't changed, But the Part Numbers have along with the way the lifters are packaged! They were sold in racks of 4 with the plastic guides for around $110 per rack, Part#'s 53021726BC & 53021728BC.....Then those got superseded to part#'s 05038785AD & 05038786AD for @ $130 per rack.
Now the lifters are sold individually & the cost has skyrocketed!!!!!!!
5038787AD for Non-MDS, My cost $49.87 each
5038788AD for MDS, My cost $106.50
This also answers the question of why owner didn't want to replace all the lifters.....$1,250.96 my cost for all 16 lifters with a Retail of $1,668.00, Not that I charge full suggested retail...I do cost + 20% + tax.
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ls1mike
It certainly looks more involved to me than an LS cam swap. Maybe I missed it but did he say why he didn't want to change the lifters?
It's not.....Practically identical to a LSx in every way besides the shaft mounted rockers & their wacky multi step torque sequence. I bar the engine over so the lifters are down on the base circle & run the bolts down with my electric ratchet SLOWLY to bleed off the lifters, Then use a 3/8" breaker to cycle the bolts a couple time to seat the shafts, Then do the final 17 ft. lbs. + 30 degrees.
The book calls for.......
Snug to 10 N·m (7 ft. lbs.)
Torque to 23 N·m (17 ft. lbs.)
Individually loosen by 1/2 turn and re-torque to 23 N·m (17 ft. lbs.)
Finally, Rotate 30 degrees
It certainly looks more involved to me than an LS cam swap. Maybe I missed it but did he say why he didn't want to change the lifters?
It's not.....Practically identical to a LSx in every way besides the shaft mounted rockers & their wacky multi step torque sequence. I bar the engine over so the lifters are down on the base circle & run the bolts down with my electric ratchet SLOWLY to bleed off the lifters, Then use a 3/8" breaker to cycle the bolts a couple time to seat the shafts, Then do the final 17 ft. lbs. + 30 degrees.
The book calls for.......
Snug to 10 N·m (7 ft. lbs.)
Torque to 23 N·m (17 ft. lbs.)
Individually loosen by 1/2 turn and re-torque to 23 N·m (17 ft. lbs.)
Finally, Rotate 30 degrees
Originally Posted by Skippy722
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
The wait is the issue, I didn't know I needed 3 more lifters 'til I pulled the cam & inspected all the lifters. My service bays need to make money & pay for themselves on top of paying me a living wage. I have roughly $25,000 invested in each service bay on building costs alone! That's not counting tools, Insurance, Land/property the building sits on, Utilities, & Equipment initial price/upkeep.
I work by myself.....I'm not going to push a dead 5,000# truck around neither. It's tough to be empathetic when someone drives a gas guzzling 4x4 pickup with AT tires in DFW of all places.
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
The wait is the issue, I didn't know I needed 3 more lifters 'til I pulled the cam & inspected all the lifters. My service bays need to make money & pay for themselves on top of paying me a living wage. I have roughly $25,000 invested in each service bay on building costs alone! That's not counting tools, Insurance, Land/property the building sits on, Utilities, & Equipment initial price/upkeep.
I work by myself.....I'm not going to push a dead 5,000# truck around neither. It's tough to be empathetic when someone drives a gas guzzling 4x4 pickup with AT tires in DFW of all places.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Skippy722
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
The wait is the issue, I didn't know I needed 3 more lifters 'til I pulled the cam & inspected all the lifters. My service bays need to make money & pay for themselves on top of paying me a living wage. I have roughly $25,000 invested in each service bay on building costs alone! That's not counting tools, Insurance, Land/property the building sits on, Utilities, & Equipment initial price/upkeep.
I work by myself.....I'm not going to push a dead 5,000# truck around neither. It's tough to be empathetic when someone drives a gas guzzling 4x4 pickup with AT tires in DFW of all places.
I figured, and I don't blame you one bit! I forgot you're down in Texas and they're up in Maryland till after I posted lol...
As the old machinist saying goes.... if the spindles ain't turning we ain't earning!
Originally Posted by Skippy722
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
The wait is the issue, I didn't know I needed 3 more lifters 'til I pulled the cam & inspected all the lifters. My service bays need to make money & pay for themselves on top of paying me a living wage. I have roughly $25,000 invested in each service bay on building costs alone! That's not counting tools, Insurance, Land/property the building sits on, Utilities, & Equipment initial price/upkeep.
I work by myself.....I'm not going to push a dead 5,000# truck around neither. It's tough to be empathetic when someone drives a gas guzzling 4x4 pickup with AT tires in DFW of all places.
I figured, and I don't blame you one bit! I forgot you're down in Texas and they're up in Maryland till after I posted lol...
As the old machinist saying goes.... if the spindles ain't turning we ain't earning!
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by mattd
That owner is one brave soul not replacing the rest of those lifters. I'll bet had you shown him a dynamic compression test you would have seen very low readings. Especially snap throttle.
I have a hard time with dynamic compression testing on these (Electronic Throttle Bodies).....The "Nannies" don't like you to have full control of the throttle blade.
I would have had to do comparisons with other cylinders to prove it out in my head. With this being a pattern failure, It was quicker to pull the cover as I was 95% sure of the issue before I even installed the vacuum gauge.
I know you know where I'm coming from
I do know exactly what you mean. Seems like we have similar type of gut instincts/diagnostic paths. Haha.
It definitely is far quicker to pull the valve cover than to disable spark/fuel to test a cylinder (known good) and do the same thing on the problem cylinder. Especially with pattern failures as you stated.
Well done ðŸ‘
Originally Posted by mattd
That owner is one brave soul not replacing the rest of those lifters. I'll bet had you shown him a dynamic compression test you would have seen very low readings. Especially snap throttle.
I have a hard time with dynamic compression testing on these (Electronic Throttle Bodies).....The "Nannies" don't like you to have full control of the throttle blade.
I would have had to do comparisons with other cylinders to prove it out in my head. With this being a pattern failure, It was quicker to pull the cover as I was 95% sure of the issue before I even installed the vacuum gauge.
I know you know where I'm coming from
I do know exactly what you mean. Seems like we have similar type of gut instincts/diagnostic paths. Haha.
It definitely is far quicker to pull the valve cover than to disable spark/fuel to test a cylinder (known good) and do the same thing on the problem cylinder. Especially with pattern failures as you stated.
Well done ðŸ‘
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by leviksu
Just bought a 2013 Hemi Ram with 84k miles on it. Valvetrain seems noisy and I think I hear the infamous tick, but I'm not sure. I've had it at 2 shops (one was the dealer I bought it from) but they said there weren't any problems. Of course all the dealer did was pull codes.
Here's a vid of the engine running warmed up. Do you think this is a tick?
I'm hearing that Redline 5w30 with a 8 to 10k OCI is a good idea. Any other suggestions? The dealer did an oil change when it was traded, so I will likely wait a few thousand at least to change it. Planning to do Blackstone analysis each change.
Anyway, thanks.
These engines, just like most truck engines, are notorious for exhaust manifold issues. We have a small fleet of RAM 1500's at work, most are 2011-2012, a few are newer. We've had no lifter issues with any of them, but every single one of them has had to have the exhaust manifold studs replaced. The VP's 2015 was in for it last week, 4x broken on the rear on each side. It has 160,000Km on it and is now quiet as a church mouse.
When it first starts happening it typically will be loud on cold start and quiet a bit, or completely, when the engine warms and the manifolds expand. As it gets worse, it'll eventually not go away.
Just bought a 2013 Hemi Ram with 84k miles on it. Valvetrain seems noisy and I think I hear the infamous tick, but I'm not sure. I've had it at 2 shops (one was the dealer I bought it from) but they said there weren't any problems. Of course all the dealer did was pull codes.
Here's a vid of the engine running warmed up. Do you think this is a tick?
I'm hearing that Redline 5w30 with a 8 to 10k OCI is a good idea. Any other suggestions? The dealer did an oil change when it was traded, so I will likely wait a few thousand at least to change it. Planning to do Blackstone analysis each change.
Anyway, thanks.
These engines, just like most truck engines, are notorious for exhaust manifold issues. We have a small fleet of RAM 1500's at work, most are 2011-2012, a few are newer. We've had no lifter issues with any of them, but every single one of them has had to have the exhaust manifold studs replaced. The VP's 2015 was in for it last week, 4x broken on the rear on each side. It has 160,000Km on it and is now quiet as a church mouse.
When it first starts happening it typically will be loud on cold start and quiet a bit, or completely, when the engine warms and the manifolds expand. As it gets worse, it'll eventually not go away.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by P10crew
Also what all mopar vehicles have this problem?
All HEMI family engines: 5.7 (all gens) 6.1, 6.4, 6.2 with and without MDS. It does however seem more prevalent in the years Skippy mentioned and in the 5.7L/6.4L truck engines rather than the SRT mills. It seems both GM and FCA were using the same brand of lifters around the timeframe that they implemented MDS/AFM and subsequently both engine families from both marques were affected. I believe they've both either changed suppliers or are using a revised part now.
Also what all mopar vehicles have this problem?
All HEMI family engines: 5.7 (all gens) 6.1, 6.4, 6.2 with and without MDS. It does however seem more prevalent in the years Skippy mentioned and in the 5.7L/6.4L truck engines rather than the SRT mills. It seems both GM and FCA were using the same brand of lifters around the timeframe that they implemented MDS/AFM and subsequently both engine families from both marques were affected. I believe they've both either changed suppliers or are using a revised part now.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
The appearance hasn't changed, But the Part Numbers have along with the way the lifters are packaged! They were sold in racks of 4 with the plastic guides for around $110 per rack, Part#'s 53021726BC & 53021728BC.....Then those got superseded to part#'s 05038785AD & 05038786AD for @ $130 per rack.
Now the lifters are sold individually & the cost has skyrocketed!!!!!!!
5038787AD for Non-MDS, My cost $49.87 each
5038788AD for MDS, My cost $106.50
This also answers the question of why owner didn't want to replace all the lifters.....$1,250.96 my cost for all 16 lifters with a Retail of $1,668.00, Not that I charge full suggested retail...I do cost + 20% + tax
Wow! That's a lot of part # change-up (which isn't surprising) and a HUGE cost increase (which IS surprising)
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
The appearance hasn't changed, But the Part Numbers have along with the way the lifters are packaged! They were sold in racks of 4 with the plastic guides for around $110 per rack, Part#'s 53021726BC & 53021728BC.....Then those got superseded to part#'s 05038785AD & 05038786AD for @ $130 per rack.
Now the lifters are sold individually & the cost has skyrocketed!!!!!!!
5038787AD for Non-MDS, My cost $49.87 each
5038788AD for MDS, My cost $106.50
This also answers the question of why owner didn't want to replace all the lifters.....$1,250.96 my cost for all 16 lifters with a Retail of $1,668.00, Not that I charge full suggested retail...I do cost + 20% + tax
Wow! That's a lot of part # change-up (which isn't surprising) and a HUGE cost increase (which IS surprising)
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Skippy722
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
The wait is the issue, I didn't know I needed 3 more lifters 'til I pulled the cam & inspected all the lifters. My service bays need to make money & pay for themselves on top of paying me a living wage. I have roughly $25,000 invested in each service bay on building costs alone! That's not counting tools, Insurance, Land/property the building sits on, Utilities, & Equipment initial price/upkeep.
I work by myself.....I'm not going to push a dead 5,000# truck around neither. It's tough to be empathetic when someone drives a gas guzzling 4x4 pickup with AT tires in DFW of all places.
I expect the customer could have afforded to have them all replaced if he hadn't visited those earlier shops that fired the parts cannon at it as well
Originally Posted by Skippy722
FWIW, eastcoastmoparts.com comes out about $100 cheaper including shipping costs for all 16 lifters. But then you have to wait for them to come in... could help someone on a super tight budget though?
The wait is the issue, I didn't know I needed 3 more lifters 'til I pulled the cam & inspected all the lifters. My service bays need to make money & pay for themselves on top of paying me a living wage. I have roughly $25,000 invested in each service bay on building costs alone! That's not counting tools, Insurance, Land/property the building sits on, Utilities, & Equipment initial price/upkeep.
I work by myself.....I'm not going to push a dead 5,000# truck around neither. It's tough to be empathetic when someone drives a gas guzzling 4x4 pickup with AT tires in DFW of all places.
I expect the customer could have afforded to have them all replaced if he hadn't visited those earlier shops that fired the parts cannon at it as well
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by GMBoy
Keep these write ups coming!
Curious, how much is a new engine vs $3600 to replace a few worn parts on this one? Understand the guy is going as low cost as possible.
Been down that road with Chrysler/FCA....They want to sell a short block for $2000, Then the heads, gasket set, cam, lifters etc for another $4000. God forbid you have a problem down the road. They aren't the only manufacturer that does this piecemeal BS either!
Coming from years at GM dealerships & several more years doing LSx swaps....It's a shock to the system!
What would a complete rebuilt long-block cost?
Originally Posted by GMBoy
Keep these write ups coming!
Curious, how much is a new engine vs $3600 to replace a few worn parts on this one? Understand the guy is going as low cost as possible.
Been down that road with Chrysler/FCA....They want to sell a short block for $2000, Then the heads, gasket set, cam, lifters etc for another $4000. God forbid you have a problem down the road. They aren't the only manufacturer that does this piecemeal BS either!
Coming from years at GM dealerships & several more years doing LSx swaps....It's a shock to the system!
What would a complete rebuilt long-block cost?
This dude has got well over $4000 just in this engine repair on this 2011 Ram and the 545RFE trans could go at any time given he's at over 130K miles. Plus his hemi tick could come back due to the parts that he couldn't afford to replace!
Originally Posted by JTK
This dude has got well over $4000 just in this engine repair on this 2011 Ram and the 545RFE trans could go at any time given he's at over 130K miles. Plus his hemi tick could come back due to the parts that he couldn't afford to replace!
Yes, he would have been better to have sold it/traded without repairing it.
This dude has got well over $4000 just in this engine repair on this 2011 Ram and the 545RFE trans could go at any time given he's at over 130K miles. Plus his hemi tick could come back due to the parts that he couldn't afford to replace!
Yes, he would have been better to have sold it/traded without repairing it.
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