Hemi Tick

[Number_35]

Hey, Clinebarger, just a note to let you know how much I (and I'm sure many others) enjoy these detail mechanical posts c/w photos. Great work, and please keep them coming.

So would you buy a Mopar Hemi-equipped vehicle yourself? If you had one without symptoms (i.e. the ticking) would you change out the lifters as preventative maintenance?

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I don't believe oil would make a difference either. GM lifter issues predates AFM & to be honest....I've only seen a couple GM AFM lifter rollers "Spall", Where I've seen MANY more standard GM lifters have the Spalling issue.

I have yet to run across a Hemi lifter showing Spalling issues, The camshaft is a different story! In fact this cam had Spalling damage on lobes & the corresponding lifter was "Okay".

This engine did have 1 MDS lifter with a locked down roller, But the #3 Intake lifter is not a MDS lifter.

I've talked to a few people who had lifter/cam failure on non AFM 4.8/5.3 engines. One was my old boss, the manager of the Goodyear I worked at. It was a 2004 GMC with less than 100k miles. He did use the cheapest oil and filters available.

What mileage have you seen failures? I'm hoping that if it makes it to 200k miles it's not likely that it's going to fail. (kind of like my 1983 305 Chevy with 240k miles - they had camshaft failures back then, either this one was fixed at lower mileage or it's just not going to fail).

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I don't believe oil would make a difference either. GM lifter issues predates AFM & to be honest....I've only seen a couple GM AFM lifter rollers "Spall", Where I've seen MANY more standard GM lifters have the Spalling issue.

I have yet to run across a Hemi lifter showing Spalling issues, The camshaft is a different story! In fact this cam had Spalling damage on lobes & the corresponding lifter was "Okay".

This engine did have 1 MDS lifter with a locked down roller, But the #3 Intake lifter is not a MDS lifter.

My friend upgraded the camshaft in his 79 Oldsmobile 350 about 10 years ago and also his 72 Ford 351C while he was rebuilding the engine. Both of them had what he called "pitting" on the camshaft, but I feel like it looked like that picture when he showed me.

I've never seen the camshaft in either of my cars so hopefully they don't have that. Would think 100k miles it would have developed a problem.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by Number_35
Hey, Clinebarger, just a note to let you know how much I (and I'm sure many others) enjoy these detail mechanical posts c/w photos. Great work, and please keep them coming.

So would you buy a Mopar Hemi-equipped vehicle yourself? If you had one without symptoms (i.e. the ticking) would you change out the lifters as preventative maintenance?



I wouldn't be scared of a VVT Hemi, I'd put in a 5150 steel Cam Motion cam along with deleting the MDS. Thus allowing to run the cheaper non-MDS lifters.
But....No Hemi powered cars/trucks fit my current needs.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

I've talked to a few people who had lifter/cam failure on non AFM 4.8/5.3 engines. One was my old boss, the manager of the Goodyear I worked at. It was a 2004 GMC with less than 100k miles. He did use the cheapest oil and filters available.

What mileage have you seen failures? I'm hoping that if it makes it to 200k miles it's not likely that it's going to fail. (kind of like my 1983 305 Chevy with 240k miles - they had camshaft failures back then, either this one was fixed at lower mileage or it's just not going to fail).


It's seems to be all over the map, Right before I quit being a GM Tech in late 2003.....We where starting to see some failures in the 30,000 to 50,000 mile range on 2003 models. We thought it was just a fluke at the time.

It just got worse.....2005,2006,2007 were probably the hardest hit, Though I've seen a few 2008's spall lifter rollers.

Interestingly enough....I have never seen a stock '97-'02 LSx suffer from this exact issue. Sure, I've seen some engines with radical camshafts "F" some lifters up!! Usually with some underlying valvetrain issue that needed correcting.

Collapsed/Mechanically Stuck in the Deactivated Position AFM lifters is a totally separate issue altogether, There are couple different failure modes that cause this.
One of them can actually be "patched" by releasing the lifter manually & turning the AFM off in the calibration via tuning software.
Here's a video.....He's a Hack & a half, I DO NOT recommend murdering the VLM like he did! Tune/Calibrate it on the spot before starting the engine.

 

[dogememe]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

I've talked to a few people who had lifter/cam failure on non AFM 4.8/5.3 engines. One was my old boss, the manager of the Goodyear I worked at. It was a 2004 GMC with less than 100k miles. He did use the cheapest oil and filters available.

What mileage have you seen failures? I'm hoping that if it makes it to 200k miles it's not likely that it's going to fail. (kind of like my 1983 305 Chevy with 240k miles - they had camshaft failures back then, either this one was fixed at lower mileage or it's just not going to fail).


It's seems to be all over the map, Right before I quit being a GM Tech in late 2003.....We where starting to see some failures in the 30,000 to 50,000 mile range on 2003 models. We thought it was just a fluke at the time.

It just got worse.....2005,2006,2007 were probably the hardest hit, Though I've seen a few 2008's spall lifter rollers.

Interestingly enough....I have never seen a stock '97-'02 LSx suffer from this exact issue. Sure, I've seen some engines with radical camshafts "F" some lifters up!! Usually with some underlying valvetrain issue that needed correcting.

Collapsed/Mechanically Stuck in the Deactivated Position AFM lifters is a totally separate issue altogether, There are couple different failure modes that cause this.
One of them can actually be "patched" by releasing the lifter manually & turning the AFM off in the calibration via tuning software.
Here's a video.....He's a Hack & a half, I DO NOT recommend murdering the VLM like he did! Tune/Calibrate it on the spot before starting the engine.




I'm still wondering if my intermittent high load high rpm misfire is due to a lifter/cam issue. It runs great 99.99999% of the time so I just ignore it. I don't need to go above 4500rpm anyway which is the only time it misfires...

So perhaps it is possible for older 5.3s to have issues with that. However, at almost 300k it's not a bad design, it's just old. All that said I love this truck and plan to keep it a long time. It runs and drives like new, I rely on it daily for personal use and work, and I absolutely trust it. I wouldn't feel nearly as confident in a 2008 5.3 with AFM/DOD.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Good thing is my 2 donor engines are a 2000 and 2002 both with only 120k miles. Glad to hear they are unaffected.

 

[wtd]

Posts like these are probably why I keep my old 5.7L Vortec powered 98 chevy truck. Not too many cam and lifter issues with those although in the early days, intake manifold gaskets were a big issue. My truck is on it's third one and has only 139,000 miles on it.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by wtd
Posts like these are probably why I keep my old 5.7L Vortec powered 98 chevy truck. Not too many cam and lifter issues with those although in the early days, intake manifold gaskets were a big issue. My truck is on it's third one and has only 139,000 miles on it.


They also have the stupid injectors inside the intake manifold.... They are good engines otherwise but I'd still take a 99-02 5.3 over the old 350. I like the body style of the 98 better though.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by wtd
Posts like these are probably why I keep my old 5.7L Vortec powered 98 chevy truck. Not too many cam and lifter issues with those although in the early days, intake manifold gaskets were a big issue. My truck is on it's third one and has only 139,000 miles on it.


The early LSx engines used the same part number lifters, One of the only parts to carry over from the Gen 1/2 SBC.

Use steel frame (MS) Fel-Pro intake gaskets!!!!

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by wtd
Posts like these are probably why I keep my old 5.7L Vortec powered 98 chevy truck. Not too many cam and lifter issues with those although in the early days, intake manifold gaskets were a big issue. My truck is on it's third one and has only 139,000 miles on it.


They also have the stupid injectors inside the intake manifold.... They are good engines otherwise but I'd still take a 99-02 5.3 over the old 350. I like the body style of the 98 better though.

Yes, the injectors on these could be an issue but luckily I've never had any with mine. I do have the new style ones NIB that I bought cheap off of CL incase mine take a dump. The 5.3 makes good power but I'm happy with my 5.7.

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by wtd
Posts like these are probably why I keep my old 5.7L Vortec powered 98 chevy truck. Not too many cam and lifter issues with those although in the early days, intake manifold gaskets were a big issue. My truck is on it's third one and has only 139,000 miles on it.


The early LSx engines used the same part number lifters, One of the only parts to carry over from the Gen 1/2 SBC.

Use steel frame (MS) Fel-Pro intake gaskets!!!!

The steel frame intake gaskets were not out yet when all of my intake gaskets were replaced. Mine still has the second design in it and I expect some day it will leak. I think it's been on the truck since about 75,000 miles or so.

The first time the leak happened was under warranty at about 25,000 miles and it was leaking externally. The second time was at about 50,000 miles and was leaking internally and was caught because I was doing period oil analysis back in those days and the level in the coolant overflow tank kept going down. The third time at about 75,000 miles was the same way.

I'm only assuming this latest gasket is not leaking because I don't lose any coolant in the overflow tank. I haven't had oil analysis done in years but maybe I should just to make sure.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by wtd
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by wtd
Posts like these are probably why I keep my old 5.7L Vortec powered 98 chevy truck. Not too many cam and lifter issues with those although in the early days, intake manifold gaskets were a big issue. My truck is on it's third one and has only 139,000 miles on it.


They also have the stupid injectors inside the intake manifold.... They are good engines otherwise but I'd still take a 99-02 5.3 over the old 350. I like the body style of the 98 better though.

Yes, the injectors on these could be an issue but luckily I've never had any with mine. I do have the new style ones NIB that I bought cheap off of CL incase mine take a dump. The 5.3 makes good power but I'm happy with my 5.7.


I know several people who haven't had any issues, but it sounds like they are very likely to fail if they sit unused long enough. What I have seen more issues with is the ignition system seems way less reliable than the old hei or the individual coils of the LS.

For reliability I'd take my carbureted 305, for gas mileage a 4.8 or 5.3, or even a 5.7 Vortec, for power a 6.0. The easiest power upgrade would be a vortec 350 but I got a 5.3 for free and another for $200 both with 120k on them. So I'll go with that eventually.