Help me to understand towing capacity

It is risky...very. If you have an at fault accident-you and your Lawyer can explain how you know better than the manufacturer that can up with the payload rating in the first place/or flaunting any other law like maximum trailer weight before you need brakes set by your state. It will be very interesting to hear!
Yep, I'll let you know if it happens. If you can find an example where someone got sued for driving a legal trailer set up that happened to exceed the manufacturers tow rating, then post it. Maybe your state does have all sorts of regs dealing with manufacturers ratings, but Ontario doesn't seem to care?
Here's a link to towing info in our drivers handbook. https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/towing
No mention of vehicle ratings, but a trailer 4500kg and up needs a different license and 3000lbs and up needs brakes....
I'm not advocating being stupid, but the if the OP lived in Ontario and wanted to tow 6000lbs with his truck, no one will care.
 
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The rear end gear just moves the power band up and down. You have a tall rear end. Its a fuel economy rearend. Starting from a dead stop, uphill with a heavy load, it will be slow, especially if you are over weight. A lower gear allows more revs, and moves the power curve down to a lower speed.

I drove a Ram with 3.73:1( iirc) and the same model with 4:10:1. Big difference, i bought the 4:10.
 
Encouraging towing over rated capacity is unfortunate. Lack of enforcement for obvious blatant examples for whatever reason doesn’t help.
4200 lbs is absolutly nothing for a truck. Aside from horsing the engine and driveline, how can I find out how much weight the truck can pull legally (and not get a ticket)?
The only answer to the question asked is whatever the placard on the truck says. Every truck is different depending on options. Being legal takes all of the opinions and advice out of the discussion.
 
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Yep, I'll let you know if it happens. If you can find an example where someone got sued for driving a legal trailer set up that happened to exceed the manufacturers tow rating, then post it. Maybe your state does have all sorts of regs dealing with manufacturers ratings, but Ontario doesn't seem to care?


If you are suggesting that it's OK if I can't find a particular example-that's unfortunate. And fault in your logic. Have a nice evening.
 
If you pulled 7200 with your 3:21 rear end, it would be an absolute dog from a dead stop, annoying everyone behind you, and down right dangerous to attempt merging onto a highway.
 
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Surprised that it appears 3.21:1 and 3.55:1 were only options, i would be looking at 3.70ish ratios for towing.

Seems like before purchase would be the time to find this out.

Somewhat on point, on my f100 when i went to install the true track i discovered someone had switched the factory 3.50:1 to a 3.25:1, i changed it back to a 3.50 and the difference is noticeable, and it is not low on power.

i'd consider a ratio swap, assuming the truck has the other necessary equipment such as coolers, tires and so forth.
 
The rear end gear just moves the power band up and down. You have a tall rear end. Its a fuel economy rearend. Starting from a dead stop, uphill with a heavy load, it will be slow, especially if you are over weight. A lower gear allows more revs, and moves the power curve down to a lower speed.

I drove a Ram with 3.73:1( iirc) and the same model with 4:10:1. Big difference, i bought the 4:10.

Its more accurate to say that the rear end gives you an extra granny gear while losing a top overdrive. You still get 8 (or however many) gears, moving from a 3.21 to a 3.92 just shuffles those 8 gears down.

So taking off from 0mph with the 3.21 will be a noticable hit vs the 3.92, but once you're out in the city or towing on the freeway there is literally 0 difference between a 3.21 and a 3.92. Do the math on the final gear ratios available, they're within like 50 rpms of eachother, with 6th (3.21) being literally identical to 7th (3.92); this is the final gear ratio most trucks will be towing at, which also means the 3.21 will be sitting in 6th/direct drive most of the time while towing whereas the 3.92 will be in 7th (overdrive); if we're worried about miniscule differenes in driveline stresses, then I'd rather be towing in direct drive vs overdrive.
 
Its more accurate to say that the rear end gives you an extra granny gear while losing a top overdrive. You still get 8 (or however many) gears, moving from a 3.21 to a 3.92 just shuffles those 8 gears down.

So taking off from 0mph with the 3.21 will be a noticable hit vs the 3.92, but once you're out in the city or towing on the freeway there is literally 0 difference between a 3.21 and a 3.92. Do the math on the final gear ratios available, they're within like 50 rpms of eachother, with 6th (3.21) being literally identical to 7th (3.92); this is the final gear ratio most trucks will be towing at, which also means the 3.21 will be sitting in 6th/direct drive most of the time while towing whereas the 3.92 will be in 7th (overdrive); if we're worried about miniscule differenes in driveline stresses, then I'd rather be towing in direct drive vs overdrive.
All else being identical, except rear gear, here’s what you’d be at RPM wise assuming 265/70r17 tires. 3.21 on the left vs 3.92 on the right.
IMG_8281.jpg


Another interesting thing is that the 8 speeds final drive ratios are so wildly different than the older 545RFE/65RE, the 8 speed being better obviously. 3.21+8 speed on left, 3.92+5 speed on right.
IMG_8282.jpeg
 
What it will tow is not as important as what it will stop. Everyone is looking at pulling power but forgetting stopping power.
GVWR is based on stopping power mostly. Bigger truck, bigger brakes. My 1500 6.2 Silverado will pull a mountain, but stopping the mountain is another story, trailer brakes or not.
 
For one, when a trailer is hitched up, the front end lifts up.

Weight is transferred to the rear axle. Not only that of the trailer, but that of the vehicle.

That’s why limits are suggested.

Use a weight distributing hitch, and now weight can be put back to the front axle, and distributed to the trailer’s axle(s). It’s not just about the drivetrain
 
What it will tow is not as important as what it will stop. Everyone is looking at pulling power but forgetting stopping power.
GVWR is based on stopping power mostly. Bigger truck, bigger brakes. My 1500 6.2 Silverado will pull a mountain, but stopping the mountain is another story, trailer brakes or not.
Yes, you are correct, the truck must have good brakes, no question about that and I prefer name brand Semi-Metallic pads for towing. Effective and well maintained trailer brakes are critical when towing heavy weight. One cannot rely on the truck for all of the stopping power. My F150 is rated to tow 10K pounds. The rather powerful OEM brakes and OEM semi-metallic pads, are not adequate to quickly stop an addl 10K pounds from any speed. The trailer must do some of the work.
 
Not enough gear or not enough power is irrelevant. Forward acceleration is optional, stopping is mandatory. If you live in a mountainous area 1,500lb could be too much without trailer brakes.
It's not just the truck or stopping it, the state you're in and are you doin commercial or "not for hire" matters too.
New Mexico has almost no requirements, if you want to double trailer 38,000lb go for it, if you die you die.
Texas has almost no restrictions if you keep it under 35 or 45mph.
Virginia wants every trailer over 3,000lb to have trailer brakes and an inspection.
 
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Guys, these rams all have the same suspension and brakes. There are rams rated to tow 11,000+ pounds, so it's absolutely zero issue exceeding his trailer weight from 4200 to 6500 just because he has the v6 with the 3.21. It will absolutely control and stop that load without problems, he'll just have less power to get up to speed.
 
All else being identical, except rear gear, here’s what you’d be at RPM wise assuming 265/70r17 tires. 3.21 on the left vs 3.92 on the right.
View attachment 174471

Another interesting thing is that the 8 speeds final drive ratios are so wildly different than the older 545RFE/65RE, the 8 speed being better obviously. 3.21+8 speed on left, 3.92+5 speed on right.
View attachment 174473

Those numbers look a little off compared to the 8hp75 I'm running, I'm not sure what transmission he's running though so that may be it.

But in any case, the trick here is to remember that you won't be using the same transmission gear in both trucks (3.21/3.92) at the same time. If you compare 6th vs 6th in both trucks at the same mph, yes the 3.92 puts down more torque at the wheel. However at that speed the RPMs would be significantly higher in the 3.92 (if the 3.21 can pull at say 2100 rpms, so can the 3.92), and so the transmission would likely upshift to 7th gear putting the RPMs and torque back down to the same level as the 3.21 in 6th. Therefore the torque advantage of the 3.92 just got canceled by the upshift.

I use the example of buying a dozen eggs from a vendor; you have two choices:
A) 4 eggs per carton, 3 cartons purchased = 12 eggs
B) 3 eggs per carton, 4 cartons purchased = 12 eggs.

In other words, 4 * 3 = 12 just like 3 * 4 = 12, doesn't matter what order you run those numbers, you still have a final multiplication value of 12.

That's what's happening here with transmission and gear ratios. You can increase the gear in either one to get you to the same point.

The only place where that doesn't work, is when both trucks are in first (3.92 has pulling advantage) or when both trucks are in 8th (3.21 gets better mpg and lower rpms) because at that point there is no longer any room for the transmission to make up the difference in the rear axle ratio.
 
I’ve got a question and didn’t want to start a new thread.

I watched a video and saw the 2023 Tahoe RST performance edition, does not have a trailer brake controller.

These guys loaded it to 7500 lbs for their test.



Isn’t that not legal, and wouldn’t it be a strain on the the vehicle? I tried configuring the RST Tahoe online. When performance is added, the trailering package is removed.

Do folks need to add their own controller?
 
Adding a brake controller isn't too difficult. I towed my popup camper with a Honda CR-V, and I added a brake controller to it. Trailer brakes are usually required for anything over 2,000 pounds empty weight, though the exact figure depends on the state. Note that trailering packages don't always include a brake controller, but they may have the necessary wiring to simplify adding one, as well as adding things like an additional transmission cooler, heavy duty radiator,
 
I’ve got a question and didn’t want to start a new thread.

I watched a video and saw the 2023 Tahoe RST performance edition, does not have a trailer brake controller.

These guys loaded it to 7500 lbs for their test.



Isn’t that not legal, and wouldn’t it be a strain on the the vehicle? I tried configuring the RST Tahoe online. When performance is added, the trailering package is removed.

Do folks need to add their own controller?

Yes, they must've added a brake controller, just like in the old days!
 
IMO the manufacturer is a little conservative on the smaller engines and lower gears to protect the drivetrain from warranty failures.

Back when manual transmissions were available in a pickup the trailer weight rating was lower than the same truck with an automatic. Manufacturers assumed clutches would burn out early from hotshots pulling boats up the ramp, while not necessarily a warranty item, they didn't want a bad rep.
Yup. My 1995 f150 with a 5 speed and unfortunately 2.73 gears gets me a whopping 2100lbs towing capacity
 
Isn’t that not legal, and wouldn’t it be a strain on the the vehicle? I tried configuring the RST Tahoe online. When performance is added, the trailering package is removed.

Do folks need to add their own controller?

GM trucks come with a pigtail harness in the glovebox. Wire your trailer brake controller to the pigtail and it plugs into the fuse block on the left side of the instrument panel. Now you have trailer brakes.
 
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