Could the experts on here help me choose an oil for a Kubota D662-L engine in a G1700 garden tractor? I have 15w40 available but want to run a CI4 10wxx year round. Good 10w30 is not available in the UK in 5 litre jug format, usually only in 20L barrels. As I will probably only change oil yearly, I intend to use a 10w40 HDEO in 4 or 5L jugs. Shell Rimula is available in certain specs in this format. These are:
Rimula R6 LM Low saps, full synthetic
ACEA:E7, E6 CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4 JASO DH-2 Caterpillar: ECF-1-A; Cummins: CES 20077, 72, 71; DAF Mack: EO-N; MAN: 3477, 3271-1; MB Approval: 228.51, 226.9; MTU; Category 3.1; Renault Trucks: RLD-2; Volvo: CNG, VDS-3. Iveco NG2
When new 2016 stock comes through this will be upgraded to: E9, CJ4, cummins 20081 Cat ecf-3 renault rld-3 volvo vds-4
Rimula R5e semi-synthetic
API: CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4; ACEA: E7, E5, E3; Global: DHD-1; Cummins: CES 20078, 77, 76, 72, 71; Mack: EO-M, EO-M+; MAN: 3275; MB Approval: 228.3; Renault Trucks: RLD-2; Volvo: VDS-3.
The latter of these I can mail order from Germany at reasonable cost in 5L format. The R6LM I can get anywhere.
My question is, is the low saps formulation appropriate for my machine or should I stick to the R5e?
Many thanks
Help me choose between oils please
- Thread starter hermit
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I couldn't help but notice 15W40 Duron XL in your Land Rover.
Duron 10W40 is available in high and low saps plus an E6 Euro blend.
Nevertheless, low saps engine oil is for low sulfur Diesel, high saps is typically for high sulfur Diesel....
it really depends on the emission controls attached to the engine
if you have a DPF and EGR you must use a low ash oil (at least CJ 4 approved) to protect the emission controls or else they will plug up prematurely
what is on your engine?
Is it simply calling for something CI-4 or better year round? How picky is the manual on viscosity? I'm fairly certain the UK uses ULSD. Are you looking for mineral, synthetic, or a blend?
Hi, everyone thanks for the quick replies. Its a very basic 1990's 3cyl. 660cc cast iron engine, no CAT no DPF no EGR I believe? Old tech. Yes we have ULSD here in the uk. Back in the 90's when it was built I believe kubota specced CG-4 (don't have a manual yet). Kubota now spec CH4, CI4 or CJ4 in 15w40 or 10w30 depending on temp.
http://www.kubota.com/service/LubricantMaintenance.aspx
My question really was the consequences of using a low SAPS oil in such an engine in terms of longevity of the machine. I intend it to be a 'keeper'. I don't really have a handle on the pros and cons of these low SAPs oils in old engines like this. Duron is very hard to get now.
hermit
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What's the matter with 15W-40 year round... It's good to less than 0*F for starting. That little engine will not throw much oil resistance at the starter motor.
I'd run a syn blend and change once a year 
Kubota spec 15w40 down to 0*C. I will be using it in the winter and would prefer not to labour the engine if there are convenient 10wxx HDEO options. Synthetic 15w40s are not common here and synthetic 5w40 such as Delvac 1 are twice the price ($17/l) of Rimula.
I'd stick to a modern CI-4 or CJ-4 lube. If 10w-40 is more readily available to you than 10w-30 and that meets the specifications you need, that's fine. The "low SAPS" designation is not a concern at all when one is using modern fuel. All CJ-4 lubes are going to be "low SAPS" by the ACEA E standards.
Thank you Garak that's helpful. So basically a low SAPS oil is not an issue in older machines. I just found out I can get 5L jugs of JCB brand 10w30 at the local farm store. They have two types:
JCB Ultra Performance 10w30 (mid saps)
CJ-4 / SM / CF. ACEA E9 Volvo VDS-4. Renault RLD-3. MB 228.31. MAN 3575. MAN 3275. MTU Type 2.1.Cat ECF-3/ECF-2. Cummins CES 20081. JASO DH-2
JCB High Performance 10w30
CH-4 / CG-4 / SJ / CF. ACEA A2, B2, E2 Mack EO-L Plus. Cummins CES 20076. Cat ECF-1
I assume JCB branded oil is going to be reasonable quality. Based on your last post would you go for the Ultra Performance?
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No, it's not a concern; CJ-4 backspecs fine with all previous examples. The wording of low and mid saps isn't really formalized, and I just go by ACEA standards, and PCMOs and HDEOs are treated a bit differently. Basically, your modern CJ-4 HDEOs with a load of builder approvals will be E7, E9 and have SA at 1 or less. They call E9 mid-SAPS and E6 low-SAPS, even if both are CJ-4, and some lubes have two or three ACEA specifications, like E6, E7, E9. The CJ-4 lubes will all have the low SA, with the E6 ones having lower phosphorus.
The concern over CJ-4 not being "as good" as CI-4 or CI-4+ never panned out. If it were me, I'd simply grab the CJ-4 lube, since here, a CI-4 or CI-4+ lube is a lot harder to get. I'm not personally familiar with JCB lubricants, but assuming they do have the certifications they claim, either choice would be fine; I'd grab the latest oil out of habit, at the very least.
Here, at Imperial Oil, they got rid of basically all the CI-4+ Mobil lubricants as soon as CJ-4 rolled out years ago. If you walk into Imperial Oil looking for a CI-4+ lube, they look at you kind of sideways. 
Thats great information, thanks Garak. I do remember a while back the debate about CJ4 vs CI4 but didn't follow it.
I was pleased that the JCB stuff was available in 5L jugs only a mile from me, I was in the mindset of looking for stuff from the major blenders. I don't know who blends for JCB, does anyone on here know? I assume they would not cut corners due to risk of warranty claims.
On a technical point, are there any pros and cons regarding a CJ4 10w30 vs CJ4 10w40, as both are now readily available. I assume the shearing issues due to spread must have been dealt with by the likes of Shell. Fuel saving for me is a non-issue, so it comes down to engine protection/longevity as this is a keeper machine. Is there a consensus on wear protection between these two weights or is it just a case of trying both and seeing how it runs. (We don't do UOA in the UK).
I can walk into a Petro-Canada bulk outlet and find CI-4+ right in front of me on the shelf, and pails of it in the wear house.
The feature of the higher additive levels in CI-4+, fit with guys that have removed their DPFs, never had one in the first place,
and off road equipment running on ULSD.
My Esso/Mobil dealer stocks both MX 15W40 and SCH 5w40 for the same applications, as there is a call for it.
The cold pumping and cranking performance of 15W40 has vastly improved since 1990 when your owner's manual was written.
My personal cut-off point for 15W40 is -15C/0F, below that I break out the 0WXX or 5WXX, because colder weather is coming.
In my opinion, XW40 provides better protection than XW30 at the cost of a 2% loss in fuel economy.
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Hi userfriendly, thanks for the reply. I guess my thoughts are that I may as well use a 10wxx rather than a marginal 15wxx if there is no penalty in terms of protection. The oil will circulate that much quicker.
Regarding your comments on xw40 protecting better than xw30 is that due to slightly higher operating viscosity or is it to do with HTHS. Its a long time since I looked at this but i thought 10w30 and 10w40 both had the same HTHS ratings. Also most of the latest specs seem to call for HTHS >3.7 i think.
Search Petro Canada lubrication videos bling, see Stockholm trucking on 10W40.
HTHS >3.7 is the minimum for SAE 15W40 to SAE 40. Achievable with mono-grade SAE 30.
If you can find a 10W40 CI-4+, E6, or CJ-4 at a reasonable price, you can't go wrong.
I'll see if I can find VIDEO link that isn't 40 characters long.
Try youtube search, same videos on petcan's site.
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Petro Canada publishes their HTHS for most of the engine oils.
Here is the link for the 2016 product book.
HDEO 10W40 is not your PCMO Castrol GTX when it comes to HTHS.
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/pdf/petro-Canada_lubricants_2016_handbook_english.pdf
This is not a plug for Petro-Canada.
I like an engine oil that I can track the supply chain, from well head to store shelf.
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Thats great information,thanks!
I think I will go for the Rimula R6LM 10w40. Very easy to get and given I will probably use only one jug a year its a reasonable cost. All its specs require hths >3.5 so I doubt shearing will be an issue. Can't be sure about the JCB 10w30 as the manufacturer is unknown. I'm sure JCB will be cheaper but I'm not using a lot of it so may as well go for the Shell product now I know that low saps oils will fully protect old tech engines. Thanks for all the help
hermit
Your Shell distributor may probably be able to get you Rimula R6M, which is the (very) high saps "cousin" of the R6LM.
I used this one in my old tech diesel with great success regarding shearing and fuel dilution control, until prices became crazy high where I live...and had injectors work done, so fuel dilution is now under control!
Hi Popsy, my folks live in Brittany too!
I did try and track down the R6m as it is the full SAPS and was also available in 5L jugs. The current stocks are only CF rated whilst the 2016 version, which isn't yet available here, has changed to CI4 spec (which kubota specify).
Come to think of it though, if both the 2015 and 2016 specs are E4, E7, VDS-3 and mb 228.5, does the lack of CI-4 spec in the 2015 version really matter for this kubota application? Is it just aftertreatment compatibility missing? In which case I assume it does not apply to this engine?
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My guess is Shell passed on the CI-4 API licensing fee for R6M, as CJ-4 is coming up 10 years old.
The R6LM is 13.0 KV100C, which puts the HTHS in around 3.8. I bet the oil would pass 5w40 and the pumping portion of 0W40.
Interesting. I do remember comments, years back, that Shell's base oils had a particular good pour point. I think the R5 E and R6 M have pour points around -39*c.
Am i right in thinking the only issue with a CF/E6, E9 oil is exhaust after treatment compatibility? Engine protection is unaffected?
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