Delo, Rotella or Delvac 15/40 is cheap and good oil. Go try one of those.
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Heavier weight oils for consumption during winter?
- Thread starter Ga129
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder if a thicker base oil would help? For example,a 10W40 or 15W40 helping with the oil loss vs a 0W40 or 5W40? You could also try an HM 20W50.
I tend to agree, I like both numbers high to fight oil burning.
I was reading the viscosity figures of some penrite oils the other day. All from the same company, and same range.
Grade - Vis 40C - Vis 100C - Spec
5W30 - 66 -11 - ILSAC GF-5
10W30 - 72 - 10 - ILSAC GF-5
5W40 - 92 - 15.3 - A3/B3
10W40 - 94 - 13.8 - A3/B3
15W40 - 114 - 15.3 - A3/B3
It's sometimes not obvious which oils are thicker by just looking at their grade. Read their spec sheet.
For comparison Castrol GTX HM from the PQIA website is
5W30 - 61.5 - 10.83 - ILSAC GF-5
Looks like a standard ILSAC GF-5, with a few seal conditioners added.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html
Try something like a mixed fleet HDEO 15W-40
I wonder if a thicker base oil would help? For example,a 10W40 or 15W40 helping with the oil loss vs a 0W40 or 5W40? You could also try an HM 20W50.
I tend to agree, I like both numbers high to fight oil burning.
I was reading the viscosity figures of some penrite oils the other day. All from the same company, and same range.
Grade - Vis 40C - Vis 100C - Spec
5W30 - 66 -11 - ILSAC GF-5
10W30 - 72 - 10 - ILSAC GF-5
5W40 - 92 - 15.3 - A3/B3
10W40 - 94 - 13.8 - A3/B3
15W40 - 114 - 15.3 - A3/B3
It's sometimes not obvious which oils are thicker by just looking at their grade. Read their spec sheet.
For comparison Castrol GTX HM from the PQIA website is
5W30 - 61.5 - 10.83 - ILSAC GF-5
Looks like a standard ILSAC GF-5, with a few seal conditioners added.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html
Try something like a mixed fleet HDEO 15W-40
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Your cat could be eating the smoke when the car is warm.
I'd run any diesel 5w40 you can find cheap. A while back I picked up "Mag 1" on amazon, for example.
I thought about that and it's possible the cats are cleaning up the exhaust before I see smoke. I'll look into it, why diesel oil?
Diesel oil has more detergents which might free up your rings.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Your cat could be eating the smoke when the car is warm.
I'd run any diesel 5w40 you can find cheap. A while back I picked up "Mag 1" on amazon, for example.
I thought about that and it's possible the cats are cleaning up the exhaust before I see smoke. I'll look into it, why diesel oil?
Diesel oil has more detergents which might free up your rings.
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
That rate of consumption is not that bad. My daily driver uses much more than that. Run the weight specified in your manual and keep the oil level checked. Change it at 5K intervals and a HM oil might be worth a try (if you haven't already) but that's as far as I would go.You mentioned PCV, also check/ clean the breather and PCV plumbing as they often will get partially blocked too.
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
That rate of consumption is not that bad. My daily driver uses much more than that. Run the weight specified in your manual and keep the oil level checked. Change it at 5K intervals and a HM oil might be worth a try (if you haven't already) but that's as far as I would go.You mentioned PCV, also check/ clean the breather and PCV plumbing as they often will get partially blocked too.
Last edited:
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Originally Posted By: Ga129
Originally Posted By: Pontual
I'd vote for going to Higher grades starting at like 10w40 or 15w40 and beyond (later 15w50 or even 20w50), since the viscosity compared to a 30, would help at highway speeds, specially at 80mph, sealing inside leaks/blowby.
Any particular recommendations as far as brand? It's starting to sound like maybe 10w40 will be a good starting point and just trying out each one past that and see if anything is different. I'm sure it would help if I slowed down too, need to get rid of this lead foot.
I'd just pick your fave brand,Castrol GTX HM,Pennzoil HM,or Valvoline Maxlife HM and give it a try (Castrol and Pennzoil being the thickest,while Valvoline being the thinnest of the trio).
Originally Posted By: Pontual
I'd vote for going to Higher grades starting at like 10w40 or 15w40 and beyond (later 15w50 or even 20w50), since the viscosity compared to a 30, would help at highway speeds, specially at 80mph, sealing inside leaks/blowby.
Any particular recommendations as far as brand? It's starting to sound like maybe 10w40 will be a good starting point and just trying out each one past that and see if anything is different. I'm sure it would help if I slowed down too, need to get rid of this lead foot.
I'd just pick your fave brand,Castrol GTX HM,Pennzoil HM,or Valvoline Maxlife HM and give it a try (Castrol and Pennzoil being the thickest,while Valvoline being the thinnest of the trio).
I'm having a hard time understanding OP's logic. He already tried all sorts of different oils with no effect, what makes him think that if he tries some more oils the problem will go away? And if 40 weight oil did nothing, 50 weights will very likely do nothing as well. The oil is not the problem here.
That's like hitting your head against the concrete wall and wondering why you have a head ache and then hitting your head against a different concrete wall in hopes that it will cure the head ache. The wall is not the problem here.
What I would do is stick to the recommended oil grade, 5w30 in this case and do the compression test.
Also, when cold starting the car, make sure that someone else starts it and you are behind observing the exhaust. Otherwise it is easy to miss the smoke as it could be a small puff that quickly disperses into the air. Also giving the engine some revs when cold should produce more visible smoke if the rings are stuck.
Also, also, if there are truly no leaks, and the car doesn't have any visible blueish smoke upon startup and rev and the compression is within spec, then there is a possibility of having a bad head gasket and the oil could be going into the cooling system.
That's like hitting your head against the concrete wall and wondering why you have a head ache and then hitting your head against a different concrete wall in hopes that it will cure the head ache. The wall is not the problem here.
What I would do is stick to the recommended oil grade, 5w30 in this case and do the compression test.
Also, when cold starting the car, make sure that someone else starts it and you are behind observing the exhaust. Otherwise it is easy to miss the smoke as it could be a small puff that quickly disperses into the air. Also giving the engine some revs when cold should produce more visible smoke if the rings are stuck.
Also, also, if there are truly no leaks, and the car doesn't have any visible blueish smoke upon startup and rev and the compression is within spec, then there is a possibility of having a bad head gasket and the oil could be going into the cooling system.
Originally Posted By: Ga129
The other thing is, everyone keeps saying it's possibly the rings, but it doesn't smoke. It sat for 3 or 4 days a week back and when I started it, no smoke at all (no leaks either). I never see smoke while driving either. I do drive on the highway a good bit and won't lie, Sometimes I find myself cruising at 80mph when I'm running late. I know 155k+ miles is not low, but it's only a 4 cylinder import. Also, I've already replaced the pvc and there's been no change.
But it's only a 4cyl import, what does that mean??? It should or should not burn oil???
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
Unless badly worn, rings don't usually cause smoke on startup, generally consumption has to be more than 1K per quart before smoke becomes noticeable(if you are looking for it)... Usually only obvious at more than a quart in 750-800 miles...
Lots of engines will burn at higher speeds(RPMs), last time I checked 80 MPH was considered high...
Recommendation?? A name brand 10W-40 High Millage oil and stick with it for at least two OCI, if that doesn't help probably nothing will...
The other thing is, everyone keeps saying it's possibly the rings, but it doesn't smoke. It sat for 3 or 4 days a week back and when I started it, no smoke at all (no leaks either). I never see smoke while driving either. I do drive on the highway a good bit and won't lie, Sometimes I find myself cruising at 80mph when I'm running late. I know 155k+ miles is not low, but it's only a 4 cylinder import. Also, I've already replaced the pvc and there's been no change.
But it's only a 4cyl import, what does that mean??? It should or should not burn oil???
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
Unless badly worn, rings don't usually cause smoke on startup, generally consumption has to be more than 1K per quart before smoke becomes noticeable(if you are looking for it)... Usually only obvious at more than a quart in 750-800 miles...
Lots of engines will burn at higher speeds(RPMs), last time I checked 80 MPH was considered high...
Recommendation?? A name brand 10W-40 High Millage oil and stick with it for at least two OCI, if that doesn't help probably nothing will...
Ga129- I see you already have used PHM oil showing the high consumption so scratch off that idea of using a high mileage oil. I agree the next thing I would try next is a 20W 50 conventional oil with a moderate 6.5-9 TBN however, I would make sure that your low temps are above 20F or-5 C or a garaged car before I would start the regimen.
I like the 5W40 diesel idea and just add a quart every 4-5 tanks. If it gets better, great, if not, oh well oil is cheap.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I'm having a hard time understanding OP's logic. He already tried all sorts of different oils with no effect, what makes him think that if he tries some more oils the problem will go away? And if 40 weight oil did nothing, 50 weights will very likely do nothing as well. The oil is not the problem here.
That's like hitting your head against the concrete wall and wondering why you have a head ache and then hitting your head against a different concrete wall in hopes that it will cure the head ache. The wall is not the problem here.
What I would do is stick to the recommended oil grade, 5w30 in this case and do the compression test.
Also, when cold starting the car, make sure that someone else starts it and you are behind observing the exhaust. Otherwise it is easy to miss the smoke as it could be a small puff that quickly disperses into the air. Also giving the engine some revs when cold should produce more visible smoke if the rings are stuck.
Also, also, if there are truly no leaks, and the car doesn't have any visible blueish smoke upon startup and rev and the compression is within spec, then there is a possibility of having a bad head gasket and the oil could be going into the cooling system.
I'll try doing that at a cold start. The reason I'm wondering about a change in oil is because that always seems to be what I keep hearing. I don't believe it's a head gasket problem. Coolant is clean and I just had the timing belt and water pump done not to long ago and they didn't mention any problem with the coolant that came out. I'm just looking for a cheap solution instead of tearing the engine down or getting a different vehicle. I will be doing a compression test soon as well.
I'm having a hard time understanding OP's logic. He already tried all sorts of different oils with no effect, what makes him think that if he tries some more oils the problem will go away? And if 40 weight oil did nothing, 50 weights will very likely do nothing as well. The oil is not the problem here.
That's like hitting your head against the concrete wall and wondering why you have a head ache and then hitting your head against a different concrete wall in hopes that it will cure the head ache. The wall is not the problem here.
What I would do is stick to the recommended oil grade, 5w30 in this case and do the compression test.
Also, when cold starting the car, make sure that someone else starts it and you are behind observing the exhaust. Otherwise it is easy to miss the smoke as it could be a small puff that quickly disperses into the air. Also giving the engine some revs when cold should produce more visible smoke if the rings are stuck.
Also, also, if there are truly no leaks, and the car doesn't have any visible blueish smoke upon startup and rev and the compression is within spec, then there is a possibility of having a bad head gasket and the oil could be going into the cooling system.
I'll try doing that at a cold start. The reason I'm wondering about a change in oil is because that always seems to be what I keep hearing. I don't believe it's a head gasket problem. Coolant is clean and I just had the timing belt and water pump done not to long ago and they didn't mention any problem with the coolant that came out. I'm just looking for a cheap solution instead of tearing the engine down or getting a different vehicle. I will be doing a compression test soon as well.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
A 15w-40 will pump fine at -25c. Does ms get that cold,
Is it possible your rings are coked up? That would cause consumption. A piston soak with mmo would clean them up.
And liqui-moly motor oil saver added to the oil will also help clean the rings.
To soak the pistons I suck the mmo in via a vacuum line while the engine is hot. Half a quart then shut of the engine. Do it slowly. Should take a couple of minutes to suck up the half quart. Let sit an hour then go for a highway drive I second gear getting the rpm up to 5000 and the pedal floored,then let off to 3000 rpm. Do this 15-20 times. A highway with sparse traffic is best.
This will break the rings loose if they were coked up.
Monitor consumption. If consumption decreases a bit do it again. Monitor.
I've got an inverse oiler on everything now. In 10000 mile intervals on my charger and c3 I have no measurable consumption.
Rings are meant to move around on the piston. If they are coked up they can't move and consumption starts. Some guys use kreen or b-12 is another winner. I use mmo of tc-w2 2 stroke oil because is an oil with detergents or solvents. I like it better than straight solvent like b-12 or kreen however kreen and b-12 are pretty much a sure thing.
Follow the directions. Very important.
Liqui-moly motor oil saver is an ester which are known to clean up deposits and will clean the rings over time.
Redline brand oil is also ester and pao and will clean your engine but I can't justify the cost of redline vs just using an additive.
The compression leak down test is crucial to know if it's your rings. You are just spending money and throwing parts at it which isn't smart if there's nothing wrong with the parts you're replacing.
Get the leak down test done,then make an informed decision. Otherwise you don't know what the real problem is. And are throwing money away.
Sounds easy enough to try. I haven't replaced anything that hasn't needed replacing as a side note. Trust me I'm pretty cheap about most things.
A 15w-40 will pump fine at -25c. Does ms get that cold,
Is it possible your rings are coked up? That would cause consumption. A piston soak with mmo would clean them up.
And liqui-moly motor oil saver added to the oil will also help clean the rings.
To soak the pistons I suck the mmo in via a vacuum line while the engine is hot. Half a quart then shut of the engine. Do it slowly. Should take a couple of minutes to suck up the half quart. Let sit an hour then go for a highway drive I second gear getting the rpm up to 5000 and the pedal floored,then let off to 3000 rpm. Do this 15-20 times. A highway with sparse traffic is best.
This will break the rings loose if they were coked up.
Monitor consumption. If consumption decreases a bit do it again. Monitor.
I've got an inverse oiler on everything now. In 10000 mile intervals on my charger and c3 I have no measurable consumption.
Rings are meant to move around on the piston. If they are coked up they can't move and consumption starts. Some guys use kreen or b-12 is another winner. I use mmo of tc-w2 2 stroke oil because is an oil with detergents or solvents. I like it better than straight solvent like b-12 or kreen however kreen and b-12 are pretty much a sure thing.
Follow the directions. Very important.
Liqui-moly motor oil saver is an ester which are known to clean up deposits and will clean the rings over time.
Redline brand oil is also ester and pao and will clean your engine but I can't justify the cost of redline vs just using an additive.
The compression leak down test is crucial to know if it's your rings. You are just spending money and throwing parts at it which isn't smart if there's nothing wrong with the parts you're replacing.
Get the leak down test done,then make an informed decision. Otherwise you don't know what the real problem is. And are throwing money away.
Sounds easy enough to try. I haven't replaced anything that hasn't needed replacing as a side note. Trust me I'm pretty cheap about most things.
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Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: Ga129
The other thing is, everyone keeps saying it's possibly the rings, but it doesn't smoke. It sat for 3 or 4 days a week back and when I started it, no smoke at all (no leaks either). I never see smoke while driving either. I do drive on the highway a good bit and won't lie, Sometimes I find myself cruising at 80mph when I'm running late. I know 155k+ miles is not low, but it's only a 4 cylinder import. Also, I've already replaced the pvc and there's been no change.
But it's only a 4cyl import, what does that mean??? It should or should not burn oil???
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
Unless badly worn, rings don't usually cause smoke on startup, generally consumption has to be more than 1K per quart before smoke becomes noticeable(if you are looking for it)... Usually only obvious at more than a quart in 750-800 miles...
Lots of engines will burn at higher speeds(RPMs), last time I checked 80 MPH was considered high...
Recommendation?? A name brand 10W-40 High Millage oil and stick with it for at least two OCI, if that doesn't help probably nothing will...
The comment about it being a 4 cyl import is me just venting. I've had fewer problems out of high mileage Big American V8s in the past. I'll try to cut back on speeding too.
Originally Posted By: Ga129
The other thing is, everyone keeps saying it's possibly the rings, but it doesn't smoke. It sat for 3 or 4 days a week back and when I started it, no smoke at all (no leaks either). I never see smoke while driving either. I do drive on the highway a good bit and won't lie, Sometimes I find myself cruising at 80mph when I'm running late. I know 155k+ miles is not low, but it's only a 4 cylinder import. Also, I've already replaced the pvc and there's been no change.
But it's only a 4cyl import, what does that mean??? It should or should not burn oil???
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
Unless badly worn, rings don't usually cause smoke on startup, generally consumption has to be more than 1K per quart before smoke becomes noticeable(if you are looking for it)... Usually only obvious at more than a quart in 750-800 miles...
Lots of engines will burn at higher speeds(RPMs), last time I checked 80 MPH was considered high...
Recommendation?? A name brand 10W-40 High Millage oil and stick with it for at least two OCI, if that doesn't help probably nothing will...
The comment about it being a 4 cyl import is me just venting. I've had fewer problems out of high mileage Big American V8s in the past. I'll try to cut back on speeding too.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
That rate of consumption is not that bad. My daily driver uses much more than that. Run the weight specified in your manual and keep the oil level checked. Change it at 5K intervals and a HM oil might be worth a try (if you haven't already) but that's as far as I would go.You mentioned PCV, also check/ clean the breather and PCV plumbing as they often will get partially blocked too.
I would love to go 5k intervals, but by the time I get to 3000 the oil has turned black and thin and smells burnt even after the top offs. I'll check some of the other plumbing when I do the compression test and am taking stuff apart or moving stuff around.
Originally Posted By: Ga129
Also as far as I know the weather has no affect on the rate of consumption which is usually around 2 to 2.5 qts by 3500 miles using 5w-30 or 10w-30.
That rate of consumption is not that bad. My daily driver uses much more than that. Run the weight specified in your manual and keep the oil level checked. Change it at 5K intervals and a HM oil might be worth a try (if you haven't already) but that's as far as I would go.You mentioned PCV, also check/ clean the breather and PCV plumbing as they often will get partially blocked too.
I would love to go 5k intervals, but by the time I get to 3000 the oil has turned black and thin and smells burnt even after the top offs. I'll check some of the other plumbing when I do the compression test and am taking stuff apart or moving stuff around.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder if a thicker base oil would help? For example,a 10W40 or 15W40 helping with the oil loss vs a 0W40 or 5W40? You could also try an HM 20W50.
I tend to agree, I like both numbers high to fight oil burning.
I was reading the viscosity figures of some penrite oils the other day. All from the same company, and same range.
Grade - Vis 40C - Vis 100C - Spec
5W30 - 66 -11 - ILSAC GF-5
10W30 - 72 - 10 - ILSAC GF-5
5W40 - 92 - 15.3 - A3/B3
10W40 - 94 - 13.8 - A3/B3
15W40 - 114 - 15.3 - A3/B3
It's sometimes not obvious which oils are thicker by just looking at their grade. Read their spec sheet.
For comparison Castrol GTX HM from the PQIA website is
5W30 - 61.5 - 10.83 - ILSAC GF-5
Looks like a standard ILSAC GF-5, with a few seal conditioners added.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html
Try something like a mixed fleet HDEO 15W-40
Thanks for that link, interesting information.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder if a thicker base oil would help? For example,a 10W40 or 15W40 helping with the oil loss vs a 0W40 or 5W40? You could also try an HM 20W50.
I tend to agree, I like both numbers high to fight oil burning.
I was reading the viscosity figures of some penrite oils the other day. All from the same company, and same range.
Grade - Vis 40C - Vis 100C - Spec
5W30 - 66 -11 - ILSAC GF-5
10W30 - 72 - 10 - ILSAC GF-5
5W40 - 92 - 15.3 - A3/B3
10W40 - 94 - 13.8 - A3/B3
15W40 - 114 - 15.3 - A3/B3
It's sometimes not obvious which oils are thicker by just looking at their grade. Read their spec sheet.
For comparison Castrol GTX HM from the PQIA website is
5W30 - 61.5 - 10.83 - ILSAC GF-5
Looks like a standard ILSAC GF-5, with a few seal conditioners added.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html
Try something like a mixed fleet HDEO 15W-40
Thanks for that link, interesting information.
And thank you everyone for the replies as well!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I'd skip the additives and just try a 15w-40. It is cheap and is generally heavier than your typical 5w-40.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I'd skip the additives and just try a 15w-40. It is cheap and is generally heavier than your typical 5w-40.
Hear, hear !!
I'd skip the additives and just try a 15w-40. It is cheap and is generally heavier than your typical 5w-40.
Hear, hear !!
Originally Posted By: Ga129
I would love to go 5k intervals, but by the time I get to 3000 the oil has turned black and thin and smells burnt even after the top offs. I'll check some of the other plumbing when I do the compression test and am taking stuff apart or moving stuff around.
turned black ?........ that's fine to me.
thin? ............ is there a reason for thinning .... got to monitor.
smells burnt ? ..................... Oh no , your engine has issue(s) replacing oil type wouldn't help I guess.
I would love to go 5k intervals, but by the time I get to 3000 the oil has turned black and thin and smells burnt even after the top offs. I'll check some of the other plumbing when I do the compression test and am taking stuff apart or moving stuff around.
turned black ?........ that's fine to me.
thin? ............ is there a reason for thinning .... got to monitor.
smells burnt ? ..................... Oh no , your engine has issue(s) replacing oil type wouldn't help I guess.
Oil turning black quickly in a gas engine can be a sign of excessive blowby.
See my post in this thread:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3889895/1
See my post in this thread:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3889895/1
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