heating - gas or electric

[stockrex]

I was curious, I am in MI, and I am looking at my gas and electric bill and trying to figure out which is cheaper to use to heat my house.
Gas or electric.

I used 94 CCF and bill was $88
and electric is 13 cents a kwh, I use around 27 kwh a day now.

1 CCF = 29.3 kwh

that gives, 3.2 cents a Kwh of energy from natural gas,

Am I correct, pls critic accuracy.

based on 13 cents a Kwh from electric vs 3.2 cents a kwh from gas, I am going to stop using my space heaters and raise the thermostat a few degrees instead!

 

[cchase]

Electric is never cheaper than gas if you're buying off the grid.

 

[Nick R]

Electric heat... No thanks! Gas all the way. When we were in maine we had this weird set up, we had a relatively small forced induction hot water heater, and a furnace that used hot water from the hot water heater. Never understood the economic benefit of that set up.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Electric is never cheaper than gas if you're buying off the grid.


Not so. In mild climates it makes more sense to have all electric with a heat pump then any kind of oil or gas. I have convinced people in my area to switch to all electric and the utility bills are cut in half with a small rise in the electric bill.

In Michigan I think you need gas to supply enough heat. In temperate areas that can run heat pumps year round it makes sense.

Quote:
An air-source heat pump can provide efficient heating and cooling for your home, especially if you live in a warm climate. When properly installed, an air-source heat pump can deliver one-and-a-half to three times more heat energy to a home than the electrical energy it consumes. This is possible because a heat pump moves heat rather than converting it from a fuel like combustion heating systems do.

Although air-source heat pumps can be used in nearly all parts of the United States, they do not generally perform well during extended periods of sub-freezing temperatures. In regions with sub-freezing winter temperatures, it may not be cost-effective to meet all your heating needs with a standard air-source heat pump.Systems with gas heating as a backup can overcome this problem, however. Heat pumps specifically designed for cold climates also show promise, and reverse cycle chillers may operate efficiently at below-freezing temperatures.



http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/air-source-heat-pumps

 

[bepperb]

A heat pump will not work in Michigan. Gas is generally a lot cheaper. Same goes for water heaters and dryers.

It's worth pointing out, though, that even at 3 times the efficiency of electric heat a heat pump might still cost more to run than gas in a mild climate if you had the same rates as the original poster.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: cchase
Electric is never cheaper than gas if you're buying off the grid.


Not so. In mild climates it makes more sense to have all electric with a heat pump then any kind of oil or gas. I have convinced people in my area to switch to all electric and the utility bills are cut in half with a small rise in the electric bill.

In Michigan I think you need gas to supply enough heat. In temperate areas that can run heat pumps year round it makes sense.

Quote:
An air-source heat pump can provide efficient heating and cooling for your home, especially if you live in a warm climate. When properly installed, an air-source heat pump can deliver one-and-a-half to three times more heat energy to a home than the electrical energy it consumes. This is possible because a heat pump moves heat rather than converting it from a fuel like combustion heating systems do.

Although air-source heat pumps can be used in nearly all parts of the United States, they do not generally perform well during extended periods of sub-freezing temperatures. In regions with sub-freezing winter temperatures, it may not be cost-effective to meet all your heating needs with a standard air-source heat pump.Systems with gas heating as a backup can overcome this problem, however. Heat pumps specifically designed for cold climates also show promise, and reverse cycle chillers may operate efficiently at below-freezing temperatures.



http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/air-source-heat-pumps
And how long does the mechanical nightmare of a heatpump system last? Two blowers, a compressor running all year.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Electric is never cheaper than gas if you're buying off the grid.

I agree with you as a general rule (and that the OP should use gas), but this isn't strictly true.

There are a couple towns in the Rochester area that have some sort of publicly-owned electric company that offers super-cheap electricity. The last public rates I found (from mid 2011) state $0.02636 per kWh for residential customers. Most people use electric heating.

 

[Donald]

I have a choice of electric, propane, oil, or a few twigs of wood and a flint.

Propane is made from oil I think so not sure it will be that much cheaper than oil in the future.

If they can liquefy natural gas (methane) to use to power vehicles, why can't they do the same and deliver (tank) it to me for my heat?

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: cchase
Electric is never cheaper than gas if you're buying off the grid.


Not so. In mild climates it makes more sense to have all electric with a heat pump then any kind of oil or gas. I have convinced people in my area to switch to all electric and the utility bills are cut in half with a small rise in the electric bill.

In Michigan I think you need gas to supply enough heat. In temperate areas that can run heat pumps year round it makes sense.

Quote:
An air-source heat pump can provide efficient heating and cooling for your home, especially if you live in a warm climate. When properly installed, an air-source heat pump can deliver one-and-a-half to three times more heat energy to a home than the electrical energy it consumes. This is possible because a heat pump moves heat rather than converting it from a fuel like combustion heating systems do.

Although air-source heat pumps can be used in nearly all parts of the United States, they do not generally perform well during extended periods of sub-freezing temperatures. In regions with sub-freezing winter temperatures, it may not be cost-effective to meet all your heating needs with a standard air-source heat pump.Systems with gas heating as a backup can overcome this problem, however. Heat pumps specifically designed for cold climates also show promise, and reverse cycle chillers may operate efficiently at below-freezing temperatures.



http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/air-source-heat-pumps
And how long does the mechanical nightmare of a heatpump system last? Two blowers, a compressor running all year.


Some of this is really the loss in distribution. Electricity is generated 100 miles away by burning natural gas, vs burning natural gas in your home. The grid ain't that good.

 

[tig1]

I have electric baseboard heat on 3 circuits. Very easy on the budget, clean, no drafts, quite, doesn't dry out the house compared to gas, cheap to do repairs, rooms that aren't being used can easily be shout off and not heated as each room has it's own thermostat. I thank that covers it. Oh! No gas monthly minimum charges which is $20 a month here. Lets see. 12x20= $240 a year savings.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
I was curious, I am in MI, and I am looking at my gas and electric bill and trying to figure out which is cheaper to use to heat my house.
Gas or electric.

I used 94 CCF and bill was $88
and electric is 13 cents a kwh, I use around 27 kwh a day now.

1 CCF = 29.3 kwh

that gives, 3.2 cents a Kwh of energy from natural gas,

Am I correct, pls critic accuracy.

based on 13 cents a Kwh from electric vs 3.2 cents a kwh from gas, I am going to stop using my space heaters and raise the thermostat a few degrees instead!


Ok, so at your current rate of consumption you are paying about $0.91 per therm for natural gas. (CCF * 1.031 = therm) Assuming whatever you are burning the natural gas in is even moderately efficient, it is far cheaper to heat with gas.

At $0.13/KWH for electric going to a space heater, it is almost three times the cost on a btu basis.

1 therm = 100,000 btu's
1 kwh = 3,412 btu's

 

[Gotch]

Gas vs Electric - Gas FTW.

However, a Heatpump does make sense if you are on Oil and would work in Michigan (worked fine in Southwestern Ontario). Our heatpump worked down to -5*C and then oil took over. Side benifit is central air in the summer.

Heatpumps are surprizingly maintemance free. Keep the coils clean and you are good to go. Normal furnace P.M. on an annual basis takes care of the rest.

It is a much better option than base-board heaters...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Growing up we lived in a town with pretty cheap electricity. Actually, by where I am now, there is a town with super low electricity. Considering moving there!

As it stands right now, with the delivery fees (which go up and down based on usage), I'm paying National Greed about $.23/KWh.

My apartment has electric heat and the external walls are sliding glass doors.

Very thankful that it's been warm so far. I don't turn on the heat. Period.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Donald
If they can liquefy natural gas (methane) to use to power vehicles, why can't they do the same and deliver (tank) it to me for my heat?


You don't liquify NG unless you have refrigeration. They are stored as gas in vehicles. Only reason to liquify NG is for long distance transit (ship) and even then it needs to be actively refrigerated and/or let them evaporate into gas and feed into a pipeline.

This is the main reason why we don't see too many CNG (compressed, not liquified, natural gas) cars around. A tank for Honda Civic can be a few thousand dollars to make.



Agree with most here that natural gas is usually the cheapest even if it is not the most efficient at heating. The only exception I can think of is if the electricity is near free and you have heat pump in moderate climate and you are not at the higher cost tier of your electric bill. I have coworker who initially buy into the heat pump being cheaper theory but later remove the heat pump and put in a natural gas heater. He said even more efficient his electricity is entering the more expensive tier and changes the whole cost balance.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Electric heat... No thanks! Gas all the way. When we were in maine we had this weird set up, we had a relatively small forced induction hot water heater, and a furnace that used hot water from the hot water heater. Never understood the economic benefit of that set up.


I also lived in Maine for several years in the 60s and 70s. We had an oil fired boiler, as many others did and still do, that also heated the domestic hot water. That may be what you are thinking of.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: tig1
I have electric baseboard heat on 3 circuits. Very easy on the budget, clean, no drafts, quite, doesn't dry out the house compared to gas, cheap to do repairs, rooms that aren't being used can easily be shout off and not heated as each room has it's own thermostat. I thank that covers it. Oh! No gas monthly minimum charges which is $20 a month here. Lets see. 12x20= $240 a year savings.


And how much is your electric bill again?

Electric heat (resistance heaters, not heat pumps) is usually VERY expensive. When my mother replaced her water heater with tankless propane, her electric bill dropped by more than half in the winter!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Electric heat... No thanks! Gas all the way. When we were in maine we had this weird set up, we had a relatively small forced induction hot water heater, and a furnace that used hot water from the hot water heater. Never understood the economic benefit of that set up.


I also lived in Maine for several years in the 60s and 70s. We had an oil fired boiler, as many others did and still do, that also heated the domestic hot water. That may be what you are thinking of.


I have the same setup, my mother used to. (New house has forced-air with no boiler.) Very common in New England!

 

[stockrex]

I had external heat pump in liberty, mo. worked quite well.
it worked if external temp is above 38F. MI is actually mild compared to MO in terms of temp.
but the BIGGEST difference is the electric cost.
in MO I paid 8 cents a kwh for the first 1k kwh, after that it was 4.8 cents a kwh for the next 800 units, less if you used more.
Issues with heatpump - the highvoltage switch wore out pretty quickly, nearly every 14 months.
I would buy another heat pump in a heartbeat if electric rates were reasonable in MI.

 

[sxg6]

I believe we have the same setup at my home. No water heater tank, just an oil fired boiler and hot water baseboard. Looks sort of like this http://www.gonzalezplumbingandheating.com/gallery/large/burnham-boiler.jpg .

Works pretty well, my friend who knows a ton about this kinda stuff says its a pretty decent system, for a 30 year old house. Much more efficient than having a hot water tank.

And you absolutely can run a heat pump in Michigan. Mitsubishi makes heat pumps with what they call h2i hyper heating technology that can remains 100% efficient at 5f, and 87% at -4f. We have one of these at a vacation home in northern new england, they work very well. A little more expensive than a traditional heat pump, but well worth it since it can do 100% of the heating (and cooling) by itself, without the need of a supplemental heating system.

mitsubishi h2i brochure

 

[dwcopple]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Oh! No gas monthly minimum charges which is $20 a month here. Lets see. 12x20= $240 a year savings.
So you have no gas service and no gas appliances at all then? What is your monthly bill?