HC refrigerants

[Shannow]

I know that there are people on BITOG who have called for people installing HC refrigerants "to be shot"

http://eia-global.org/blog/epa-opens-u.s.-market-for-climate-friendly-refrigerants

nearly every under counter fridge in Oz these days is R600/a and has 3 to 4 star rating versus a 2-3 under the old stuff.

 

[Bluestream]

HC refrigerants are environmentally safe, that's why they are not regulated. There are also much more efficient. Unfortunately, Dupont cannot patent them, and therefore no money is to be made by promoting them.

 

[Chris142]

Hc works well in a perfectly sealed system such as a fridge with welded connections. But there's potential for a fire when used in a car with seals,rubber hose etc.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Hc works well in a perfectly sealed system such as a fridge with welded connections. But there's potential for a fire when used in a car with seals,rubber hose etc.


I've always wondered about the real risk of that. For example, we have electric fuel pumps immersed in the fuel tank, producing 160 PSI pressure, which runs in plastic lines, to the engine, where it circulates in various components atop a hot engine. One leak on to a glowing exhaust manifold and "poof" up in flames. There are even some 8 and 12 cylinder engines with 2 injectors per cylinder, and many, many connections that can leak.

Power steering pumps also produce high pressure, can leak and spray on hot manifolds, causing a fire.

At what point do we start to understand that sealing a system with fluids is really not all that hard with proper design. Only GM will have trouble getting it right... (just a joke)

For God's sake, we have natural gas and propane piped right into our homes, with valves to turn the stuff on and release it directly into the home's interior...

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Hc works well in a perfectly sealed system such as a fridge with welded connections. But there's potential for a fire when used in a car with seals,rubber hose etc.
You really think a couple lbs of refrigerant that will dissipate almost immediately is the problem when you have a 20 gallon gasoline tank and high pressure gasoline lines running all over?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Hc works well in a perfectly sealed system such as a fridge with welded connections. But there's potential for a fire when used in a car with seals,rubber hose etc.

+1. The Russians are still making R 12 by the ton.

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Hc works well in a perfectly sealed system such as a fridge with welded connections. But there's potential for a fire when used in a car with seals,rubber hose etc.
You really think a couple lbs of refrigerant that will dissipate almost immediately is the problem when you have a 20 gallon gasoline tank and high pressure gasoline lines running all over?


Excatly, the flammability excuse is laughable.

 

[Chris142]

I'm sure that the new cars with the hc refrigerant will be built different. IMO the biggest danger is a front end crash where the condenser gets punctured and sparks from the electric radiator fan ignite them.

 

[Kestas]

The link in the initial post addresses stationary a/c refrigeration, not mobile a/c refrigeration.

I agree with Bluestream's comment that industry has their hands in this affair and are forcing us to pay dearly for a/c through regulatory action.

 

[Shannow]

Yeah, I know it was stationary.

But HC is being used legally in motor vehicles, despite the efforts of the gas supply industry to spout it's dangers and keep cajoling for bans.

http://www.hydrocarbons21.com/articles/4...hc_refrigerants

A regas with 134 is $600 min in my area...can't buy a recharge kit in the stores, so people are moving away from them.

 

[Shannow]

Only started the topic as I was in a store the other day and they had the novelty horns...

I know some places that they are filled with CFCs or the like, and some places you can buy OTC cans to refill your AC (saw row upon row when we were in the states last year).

Wondering what was in the cans, the ingredients were 100% dimethylether...which googling indicated was a pretty satisfactory R12 replacement.