Hard Starting Accord

[ecotourist]

My 2007 Honda Accord V6 is having difficulty starting.

The AGM battery (which I initially suspected) had 12.01 Volts after 2 - 3 weeks of sitting and took a charge to 12.83 Volts. That all seems pretty normal.

With the battery charged it started but only reluctantly. It starts quickly enough but seems to have trouble turning over the engine. I suspect the starter. Any other thoughts? In all my years of driving I've never had problems with a starter so I'm new to this game.

If I have to replace the starter, should it be a new OEM, or a rebuild? - who does a good rebuild? Would it be worth having the old one rebuilt locally? Is that even done anymore?

 

[Jetronic]

I would check the resistance (or rather the voltage drop) between the battery negative terminal and the engine block while cranking, and while the engine is running.

Weak starters do happen, but 12.01V in the battery after 2-3 weeks is not normal, unless the battery is not getting charged enough. the slow turning over can also be ground related.

 

[Analog-1]

If it's the starter go Honda OEM you will regret after market i promise you. Honda OEM is one and done.

 

[irad]

Check for corrosion on the wires to the starter. Last month on a 2005 cleaned wires on starter and the problem went away. There was visible dirt/corrosion.

 

[ecotourist]

I would check the resistance (or rather the voltage drop) between the battery negative terminal and the engine block while cranking, and while the engine is running.

Weak starters do happen, but 12.01V in the battery after 2-3 weeks is not normal, unless the battery is not getting charged enough. the slow turning over can also be ground related.

The Voltage at the battery is 14.52 V when the engine is running, which should mean the alternator is working properly The car was driven about 20 miles before being parked so the battery should have been fully charged. The car isn't driven very much which isn't good for it.

I assume the resistance between the battery's negative post and the block should be almost zip whether stopped or running. I doubt I'd be able to catch the resistance while turning over because it still starts pretty fast.

 

[Kira]

How many miles on your 2007?

As stated above, check the flow of electricity....starting with the cleanliness of the battery terminals and large cables.

Your post is a tad conflicting. " it started but only reluctantly. It starts quickly enough but seems to have trouble turning over the engine."

As you set out measuring things, dose the tank with a cleaner containing PEA and drive the car locally.
PEA cleans the injectors upon shutdown. Ergo, dosing the tank and going on a long highway run isn't as effective.
However, highway runs seem to aid everything else!

 

[SC Maintenance]

The Voltage at the battery is 14.52 V when the engine is running, which should mean the alternator is working properly The car was driven about 20 miles before being parked so the battery should have been fully charged. The car isn't driven very much which isn't good for it.

I assume the resistance between the battery's negative post and the block should be almost zip whether stopped or running. I doubt I'd be able to catch the resistance while turning over because it still starts pretty fast.

Did this happen sort of suddenly? If so, I doubt its your starter. Likely cables or battery.

You can check the resistance, but if it has even a small clean spot your meter will show zero, but once you try to put all that current through it may not be enough "clean spot". I would go ahead and clean the cables on both ends.

Starters do wear out. The brushes get worn, or they get dirty and don't make good contact. You used to be able to open them and clean the dust out and replace the brushes and that usually cured it. I don't think anyone does this anymore.

I also agree that just because the alternator shows 14.5V running, doesn't mean the battery is still good. You can get a battery tester for pretty cheap that does an OK job. Nothing beats a load pile tester, but for DIY the $30 on amazon are OK. Also walmart will test it for free, if you want to go that route. I have a Ancel tester and its worth the purchase IMHO.

If you do need to do the starter, I would also go OEM if available - but it may also be rebuilt at this point (likely actually).

 

[ecotourist]

How many miles on your 2007?

Your post is a tad conflicting. " it started but only reluctantly. It starts quickly enough but seems to have trouble turning over the engine."

About 190,000 Km (120,000 miles).

It is a tab confusing. It has always started easily. Now the starting sounds start fading (sort of stalling out), but then the engine starts. It's only 2 or 3 seconds before it's running.

Did this happen sort of suddenly? If so, I doubt its your starter. Likely cables or battery.

It has always started well. A few starts ago it began this almost "stalling out" thing.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

120,000 miles when was the last time the plugs and coils were replaced?

 

[RobbS]

Autozone can test your battery and alternator. Fill the tank with bottles of PEA in a quarter full tank.
Clean the electrical connections, especially the negative cables on starter and battery. Goodd Luck.

 

[eljefino]

If it's the starter go Honda OEM you will regret after market i promise you. Honda OEM is one and done.

Well to be pedantic it could be two and done.

Old starters can and do "drag", taking more current than required yet turning over slower than new. One test might be to jump start with another car/ battery, but have that car not running as well. You'll then have a 1400 CCA, still-12-volt battery assembly. A good starter will spin great on that, a bad one will still drag.

 

[ecotourist]

120,000 miles when was the last time the plugs and coils were replaced?

Spark plugs were replaced at 170,000 km. I don't think that the coils have ever been replaced.

As you set out measuring things, dose the tank with a cleaner containing PEA and drive the car locally.
PEA cleans the injectors upon shutdown. Ergo, dosing the tank and going on a long highway run isn't as effective.
However, highway runs seem to aid everything else!

I have occasionally put through a dose of injector cleaner though not recently. I have always used top tear fuel.

It doesn't seem to be a "firing up" problem, it seems to be a "sluggish turning over" problem.

The battery posts are clean but I've never checked or cleaned the post on the starter. That seems liked the logical next thing to do. I just watched a video on how to replace the starter so I now know where the starter is. It sure wasn't obvious. Not easy to get at but should be possible.

Old starters can and do "drag", taking more current than required yet turning over slower than new. One test might be to jump start with another car/ battery, but have that car not running as well. You'll then have a 1400 CCA, still-12-volt battery assembly. A good starter will spin great on that, a bad one will still drag.

I like the idea of boosting it with a known good battery. I have a set of heavy gauge booster cables and a friend with an ice vehicle. That will give us plenty of 12V CCA. That will be good check on the starter itself.

I had the battery checked a year ago at Canadian Tire. It checked out fine then. I can do that again if there is any question.

 

[Kira]

Fill the tank with bottles of PEA in a quarter full tank.

That's quite the instruction!

 

[meep]

One thing you can try to test is the voltage WHILE cranking. Back in the day it had to be 9V or greater while it was cranking. Less than 9, battery is weak or theres a bad connection, depending on where the meter is probing.

 

[ecotourist]

One thing you can try to test is the voltage WHILE cranking. Back in the day it had to be 9V or greater while it was cranking. Less than 9, battery is weak or theres a bad connection, depending on where the meter is probing.

Thanks for the suggestion. 9 volts between where and where?

 

[Zenon]

I had a hard time starting my Accord after the aftermarket starter replacement. Some TSB described problems with starting when your ECU learned the “wrong” cranking pattern when the battery was weak. The solution was using the OEM starter and the “cranking pattern relearn” procedure using a bidirectional scanner.

 

[Marcozi]

Check the engine's ground strap.

 

[meep]

Thanks for the suggestion. 9 volts between where and where?

Two places I’d think - one at the battery Posts themselves (need a helper). Second would be anywhere else. The readings should be close. If they aren’t close, there is a wiring problem with voltage loss. If the battery is dropping below 10 during crank, it’s inadequate.

Fun fact - an analog volt meter is often easier to read for this test than a digitsl

 

[ecotourist]

I'm currently doing a kind of leak-down test on the battery. The negative post is disconnected so the battery is just sitting there undisturbed.

After charging it was 12.89 V at 5:15 pm yesterday. It's down to 12.51 V as of 1:00 pm today.

That doesn't strike me as normal. I would have expected little to no voltage drop.

That Voltage drop seems to represent quite a loss of charge. My (highly imperfect) understanding of AGM batteries is that 12.51 V represents about a 70% charge. Assuming it was fully charged at 12.89 V, it has lost about 30% of its charge just sitting there, in less than 24 hours.

Comments?

 

[michaelluscher]

Ignition switch ever replaced?