Man I just don't get it on all these different flush products or motor cleaners. Everything I have read on here points away from using gunk and some of the cheaper stuff to clean a motor. It seems most everyone points to using these more expensive cleaners that you have to order over the internet. If all these products are so great why are they not picked up by larger companies and marketed and put on the shelves in our retail stores. That is how every other product that is worth their salt is done. For example, the scunci steam cleaner was started marketed on tv. It went over well enough someone picked it up and started selling in the retail stores. All I seem to read is how bad the gunk stuff will break off large deposits which will get plugged in the oil passages. Ok??? Are you telling me that auto rx is going to magically break the same stuff apart and make it magically dissappear or dissolve? I cannot see how this stuff that cost 10 times as much is going to do anything different than the cheaper stuff that has been around for yrs and in the stores. I am not saying it will not work but I have to wonder why no one has marketed it and put in the stores. This is the same reason I will not buy amsoil. If it is so great and superior to royal purple, redline and others then why isn't it in our stores. How much garbage products do you see advertised on tv? Notice the good ones seem to make it to the retail market. Do yall think the internet is any different???
Gunk, Auto-RX, Lube Control and the others...
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You certainly have the right to be skeptical.
Of course purple oil isn't a marketing gimmick.
Of course purple oil isn't a marketing gimmick.
Regardless of how well these products work, I think they are priced out of the everyday consumer's price range. They are specialty products for educated consumers. The same goes for shelf motor oils. Thousands of stores can't stock a comprehensive selection of $10-14/qt motor oils when well known synthetics and $2 oils sit right there next to them. You have to seek out the high quality products until the market changes to make them commonplace.
Most people do not keep or care to keep an auto in tip-top running condition.
Autos are just disposable appliances to many
Autos are just disposable appliances to many
Hey Groucho.... I am assumming you were refering to royal purple when you said purple oil. If so, what I meant was I think royal purple and redline products are just as good if not better than amsoil. I would much rather have one of them two oils than amsoil for the simple fact they are available in retail stores.
Nailed it right on the nose with that one. I see that in most of the people I talk to. They ask me why I spend so much time, effort, and money restoring my older high miles car to good condition when its just a "beater that is nearly dead anyways". I enjoy keeping my machine in nice condition, tuning it, and putting the good stuff into it because I have found that the better you treat cars, the better they treat you in return...usually. Alot of folks I know figure they will do the bare min to keep it street legal and drive it till it falls apart on the road.quote:
Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Most people do not keep or care to keep an auto in tip-top running condition.
Autos are just disposable appliances to many
You mean like Slick 50, Duralube, Prolong, etc. All very well distributed because of great marketing but not what I would put in my motor. You can buy your well marketed pet rock and I'll buy my LC thank you. What sells at stores is advertising dollars or lower a price for something that appears equivalent. At least here we find out that there are different ways to approach the same problem. You can use gunk but it wont free the ring pack like ARX or extend your oil like LC while keeping the motor surfaces clean and lowering insolubles during the OCI. You can probably do a quick flush on most motors successfully. Those products just don't do as much as or as safely as some of the more esoteric products discussed here.
Ok.... Don't get me wrong because there is some awsome info on this site and many others like it but when you read all these testimonials here or anywhere else what makes these true and the others falsehoods. Anyone pushing a product is going to give you the upsides to it. You think auto rx or any other is going to tell you the negative affects? Come on... get real. I see no proof whatsoever that some of this internet stuff is any better than some of the stuff you can buy in the stores. Go ahead and buy into it. Maybe you will get 10k or 20k more miles out of your car. The guy down the street driving the same car can buy the retail stuff and save the extra money he would have wasted on all this internet stuff over the life of the car and put it down on the new one.
For what it's worth, Amsoil is available in stores here in Canada. Not mom-and-pop stores either. Canadian Tire stocks it and they probably sell more motor oil than any other chain (OK, except maybe Walmart). Before I found BITOG, I assumed it was just another high-end oil. No idea it was independently marketed.
Tornado fuel savers are widely available at auto parts stores.
Auto Rx isn't.
FP 60 isn't, either.
Shall our conclusions concerning their usefulness be determined by easy availability, or hard evidence?
If you wern't already at bobistheoilguy.com, I would direct you there to seek information on oil related products.
Auto Rx isn't.
FP 60 isn't, either.
Shall our conclusions concerning their usefulness be determined by easy availability, or hard evidence?
If you wern't already at bobistheoilguy.com, I would direct you there to seek information on oil related products.
I think some of you are getting the wrong idea of what I mean. All these products I am sure are wonderful. I just don't see how they could be that much better than what is readily available in retail places for a much more economic price. For instance, do yall really think Amsoil oil is any better than say Royal Purple or Redline? All of them are darn good oils. I just cannot imagine that Amsoil is that more superior than the other two I mentioned.
but on the flip side (I try to see both sides here) there are millions and millions of people the have 200 to 400K miles on their cars and do not use anothing in oil / gas other then what is outlined in the book. And they run great.
I used Amsoil for years. Switch to another oil brand since they are too high. I could use walfart supertech @ $6 for 5 qts and the car would run many miles too!
Now that being said, I do use LC20/Fp60 and now trying Auro-rx. I do test my oil and I think 90% of people in this world (not here) do not. Another issues.
I used Amsoil for years. Switch to another oil brand since they are too high. I could use walfart supertech @ $6 for 5 qts and the car would run many miles too!
Now that being said, I do use LC20/Fp60 and now trying Auro-rx. I do test my oil and I think 90% of people in this world (not here) do not. Another issues.
So the logic goes: if it is good, it would be at Wal-Mart?
The path to market can be slow, difficult, and expensive. I suppose that if Frank wanted to "bet" his company on an expensive TV marketing campaign, and if the campaign worked (product working is not important, only sales) then a larger company may want to buy him out. Then you could buy AutoRX at your favorite store. Items that sale, make it to retail. Items that work are left by the way-side until they sale. In the modern world, "sale" means millions of units.
The path to market can be slow, difficult, and expensive. I suppose that if Frank wanted to "bet" his company on an expensive TV marketing campaign, and if the campaign worked (product working is not important, only sales) then a larger company may want to buy him out. Then you could buy AutoRX at your favorite store. Items that sale, make it to retail. Items that work are left by the way-side until they sale. In the modern world, "sale" means millions of units.
Yet a pretty expensive product like Mobil 1 thrives.Many do care more than you belive,especially with todays car prices.quote:
Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Most people do not keep or care to keep an auto in tip-top running condition.
Autos are just disposable appliances to many
Personally I'm glad that Auto-Rx, LC and FP (among others) aren't sold in every big chain retail store. It means that the manufacturer needs to protect it's integrity. They rely on "word of mouth" rather than marketing, pushy sales people and double speak.
They are spending more money on manufacturing and developing top products than on marketing slogans and logos. I don't need someone to convince me of anything. I try something once. If I don't see discernible proof that it's doing something positive, I won't use it again.
I think that some Amsoil dealers are a little over zealous and even a few more are grossly misinformed about motor oil in general. Just from this site Frank, LCD and Molakule know their stuff. They have a job to do, just like everyone here does, I applaud them for presenting as much factual evidence as they possibly can. They aren't pushy and they have every right to get defensive when someone comes along questioning thousands of experiences and bad-mouthing something they have never tried. Is it really so hard to order things from the internet? I prefer it rather than driving to the store just to find out it's out of stock.
It all comes down to your own personal experiences. That's what this board is and should be about. Sharing your experiences, not convincing someone else to do what you do because that's what is expected. Try it. Everyone has a right to be skeptical but I'm not sure that saying because these products aren't sold at Walmart is a dis-qualifier for their effectiveness.
They are spending more money on manufacturing and developing top products than on marketing slogans and logos. I don't need someone to convince me of anything. I try something once. If I don't see discernible proof that it's doing something positive, I won't use it again.
I think that some Amsoil dealers are a little over zealous and even a few more are grossly misinformed about motor oil in general. Just from this site Frank, LCD and Molakule know their stuff. They have a job to do, just like everyone here does, I applaud them for presenting as much factual evidence as they possibly can. They aren't pushy and they have every right to get defensive when someone comes along questioning thousands of experiences and bad-mouthing something they have never tried. Is it really so hard to order things from the internet? I prefer it rather than driving to the store just to find out it's out of stock.
It all comes down to your own personal experiences. That's what this board is and should be about. Sharing your experiences, not convincing someone else to do what you do because that's what is expected. Try it. Everyone has a right to be skeptical but I'm not sure that saying because these products aren't sold at Walmart is a dis-qualifier for their effectiveness.
I think it would be better to say, "If it is cheap, it would at Walmart.
Simple with out a middle man the cost of the product stays reasonable. Take Auto-Rx for example, $18 per bottle. Now add in say a 50% unit cost of most stores. That means they would be selling it for $36 a bottle. Who do you know that would pay $36 for an engine cleaner when there is a $4 bottle of Gunk there right next to it? Remember the old sayings, they're all the same, it is just as good as, it does the same thing just cheaper. Get the point?
All I know is what I see. My 87 Volvo 740 had a new engine put in it a few years ago. I started the car out on Mobil 1 and at 20K miles I started adding a maintenance dose of Auto-Rx.
A year and a half ago I bought a 97 Volvo 960 with 66K miles on it. The previous owner did 5K mile conventional oil changes. Although it has been Auto-Rxed and is through 2 oil changes with Mobil 1 the difference between the two engines is dramatic. The 740 has 58K miles on it and the 960 has 75K miles on it. The 740's motor looks like it is brand new inside the oil cap. The 960 although much cleaner than it was is still covered with a nice coating of varnish that will probably never come off. But the up side is before I used the Auto-Rx and FP60 in the 960 my gas mileage was 26.3 mpg. A week and a half ago I got 28.8 mpg. A 2.5 mpg or 8.7% increase is nothing to sneeze at. Plus during the Auto-Rx cleaning cycle the idle did smooth out a lot.
I used to think the same way you did. Then I found this board and tried synthetics, Auto-Rx, FP60 and LC20 and I found the products work as advertised. To each his own. If you are happy with the products sold off the shelf continue to use them. Using the Internet can save you a lot of money if you do enough research. Mann Oil filter for my car at the dealer $13.95, local foreign parts store $6 and ordering off the net $3.50 each.
All I know is what I see. My 87 Volvo 740 had a new engine put in it a few years ago. I started the car out on Mobil 1 and at 20K miles I started adding a maintenance dose of Auto-Rx.
A year and a half ago I bought a 97 Volvo 960 with 66K miles on it. The previous owner did 5K mile conventional oil changes. Although it has been Auto-Rxed and is through 2 oil changes with Mobil 1 the difference between the two engines is dramatic. The 740 has 58K miles on it and the 960 has 75K miles on it. The 740's motor looks like it is brand new inside the oil cap. The 960 although much cleaner than it was is still covered with a nice coating of varnish that will probably never come off. But the up side is before I used the Auto-Rx and FP60 in the 960 my gas mileage was 26.3 mpg. A week and a half ago I got 28.8 mpg. A 2.5 mpg or 8.7% increase is nothing to sneeze at. Plus during the Auto-Rx cleaning cycle the idle did smooth out a lot.
I used to think the same way you did. Then I found this board and tried synthetics, Auto-Rx, FP60 and LC20 and I found the products work as advertised. To each his own. If you are happy with the products sold off the shelf continue to use them. Using the Internet can save you a lot of money if you do enough research. Mann Oil filter for my car at the dealer $13.95, local foreign parts store $6 and ordering off the net $3.50 each.
"Many do care more than you belive,especially with todays car prices."
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But many more don't.
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But many more don't.
There was once a time when many of the "big names" at the chain stores were just little guys starting out and not in the chain stores.
The niche market of engine cleansers and oil treatments is as old as the IC engine itself. ARX is a relatively new product compared to the big old established names. It appears to have a relatively high production cost according to Frank, which would certainly limit the profit margin customary for mass market distribution. Apparently Frank doesn't want to de-tune the formula to make it cheaper, but perhaps less effective. Good for Frank, and good for us who use it. It is genuinely different from anything else out there at the moment.
LC, if I remember my research, may be a derived decendant of Microlube, a product that once was on the store shelves. LC today appears more targeted to the commercial/industrial market, a market that the big chain stores do not really cater to.
I don't see Delvac 1 at Pep Boys. Does that make it less capable? I don't see Shaeffers at Walmart or Pep Boys, either. But I would never hold that against what are among the best motor oils out there.
But I've sure seen an ocean of snake oils and dubious other potions peddled at those big chain stores over the years. Stuff that I would be relectant to put in a lawn mower crankcase.
More importantly, with the internet revolution in sales, whether a product is available at a brick and mortar establishment is becoming less and less relevant to its qualities.
Places like Walmart and Pep Boys are targeted for the average consumer who views these products as small variations among fungible goods, and expects and is usually delivered a reasonably acceptable product quality made with healthy profit margins for everyone in the chain of distribution.
Commercial-grade and true speciality products of the type we often talk about here are typically an exception to that equation.
The niche market of engine cleansers and oil treatments is as old as the IC engine itself. ARX is a relatively new product compared to the big old established names. It appears to have a relatively high production cost according to Frank, which would certainly limit the profit margin customary for mass market distribution. Apparently Frank doesn't want to de-tune the formula to make it cheaper, but perhaps less effective. Good for Frank, and good for us who use it. It is genuinely different from anything else out there at the moment.
LC, if I remember my research, may be a derived decendant of Microlube, a product that once was on the store shelves. LC today appears more targeted to the commercial/industrial market, a market that the big chain stores do not really cater to.
I don't see Delvac 1 at Pep Boys. Does that make it less capable? I don't see Shaeffers at Walmart or Pep Boys, either. But I would never hold that against what are among the best motor oils out there.
But I've sure seen an ocean of snake oils and dubious other potions peddled at those big chain stores over the years. Stuff that I would be relectant to put in a lawn mower crankcase.
More importantly, with the internet revolution in sales, whether a product is available at a brick and mortar establishment is becoming less and less relevant to its qualities.
Places like Walmart and Pep Boys are targeted for the average consumer who views these products as small variations among fungible goods, and expects and is usually delivered a reasonably acceptable product quality made with healthy profit margins for everyone in the chain of distribution.
Commercial-grade and true speciality products of the type we often talk about here are typically an exception to that equation.
I was skeptical of some of the things I read about arx, lc, fp ect when I first got on this board. Once I went ahead & ordered all 3 & started using them I was impressed, all 3 work as advertised. LC & FP quiet & smooth the motors on my cars while ARX gets out all kinds of hard abrasive junk that I have not seen before in 25 yrs of doing my own oil changes. I for one am glad these are not marketed at chain stores, with the constant push for ever greater profits they would either be cheapened down to compete with the other 'additives' or would be so expensive I couldn't afford them.
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