Group V vs. Group IV

Pennzoil motor oil
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Originally Posted By: E46M3
I think that I am going to go with the Redline 0w40. You can buy it by the 5 gallon bucket for about $9.65 per gallon here: [URed Line]http://www.thrustmotorsports.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2676[/URed Line]

I hear really good things about Motul but is it is about $12.3 per quart. Not that it is that much more money but I am not sure if the Motul 0w30 is any better than the Red Line 0w40 for my application. Both are Group V. I don't track my car (yet) however it does see WOT most days.

With my mods my 135i makes about 450hp at the crank and 425rtq so I am trying to protect the internals and the turbo's as much as possible.


you mean 9.65/qt?(for redline)

I'd run a 0w30 in the winter no problem. IF you track/autocross or anything where you see higher oil temps you should most likely step up to a 0/5w40

I think the best most value for your money oil would most likely be Mobil 1 0w40 available evryday at walmart for 5-6$/qt and cheaper on sale.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: E46M3
I think that I am going to go with the Redline 0w40. You can buy it by the 5 gallon bucket for about $9.65 per gallon here: [URed Line]http://www.thrustmotorsports.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2676[/URed Line]

I hear really good things about Motul but is it is about $12.3 per quart. Not that it is that much more money but I am not sure if the Motul 0w30 is any better than the Red Line 0w40 for my application. Both are Group V. I don't track my car (yet) however it does see WOT most days.

With my mods my 135i makes about 450hp at the crank and 425rtq so I am trying to protect the internals and the turbo's as much as possible.


you mean 9.65/qt?(for redline)

I'd run a 0w30 in the winter no problem. IF you track/autocross or anything where you see higher oil temps you should most likely step up to a 0/5w40

I think the best most value for your money oil would most likely be Mobil 1 0w40 available evryday at walmart for 5-6$/qt and cheaper on sale.


Sorry about that. I meant per quart.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: deven
By using a small amouth of Grp IV with Grp V base makes the additives dissolve better than using either Grp V or IV base with a grp II+ carrier.

Once again, this does not sound right. Group V oil does not need any other base to carry additives as Group V in itself is very much additive soluble. Group V oil needs other oil bases for seal compatibility, as was mentioned above.


Maybe it should be that it's advantageous to add some grp IV to grp V to gain cold weather performance?
 
Amazon often has that Motul on sale for less, if you're willing to buy cases of it. I've seen it for under $12/L shipped to your door. I'd give it a shot, looks like a great oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: deven
By using a small amouth of Grp IV with Grp V base makes the additives dissolve better than using either Grp V or IV base with a grp II+ carrier.

Once again, this does not sound right. Group V oil does not need any other base to carry additives as Group V in itself is very much additive soluble. Group V oil needs other oil bases for seal compatibility, as was mentioned above.

Yes after reading the links you provided it does not sound right but after talking extensively with Red Line and Motul reps what they have told me is that when adding group IV oils to Grp V oils just by a bit, it improves the solvency of the anti wear additves better than using group II+ oils.
 
I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Redline and I plan to by it in the 5 gallon bucket. So, I am confused with the weight that I should use.

I live in NC and it doesn't get that cold but our summers are pretty hot. I drive my car about 10k per year and my typical drive is 12 miles to and from work.

It rarely sees long drives, meaning 100 miles or more. I would say maybe 5 times a year would I drive 100 miles or more on one trip.

I plan on changing the oil every 6k to 7.5k miles.

I don't plan on tracking the car so I don't need an oil for track purposes but it does see WOT often but only in short intervals.
 
Red Line usually recommends the thinnest grade recommended in your manual. Although, I would probably be tempted to go with 0W-40 with an AP Stage II 135i.

-Dennis
 
Originally Posted By: E46M3
I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Redline and I plan to by it in the 5 gallon bucket. So, I am confused with the weight that I should use..............I plan on changing the oil every 6k to 7.5k miles..................I don't plan on tracking the car so I don't need an oil for track purposes but it does see WOT often but only in short intervals.


So you are not going to track the car, then you don't need Redline.

Overrated track use only oil and overkill, not required etc for street use IMO as its very expensive with no builder approvals.

Use the OEM spec oil with the builders approval, this cannot be over stated. BITOG shouldn't overrule the OEM recommendations.
 
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Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: E46M3
I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Redline and I plan to by it in the 5 gallon bucket. So, I am confused with the weight that I should use..............I plan on changing the oil every 6k to 7.5k miles..................I don't plan on tracking the car so I don't need an oil for track purposes but it does see WOT often but only in short intervals.


So you are not going to track the car, then you don't need Redline.

Overrated track use only oil and overkill, not required etc for street use IMO as its very expensive with no builder approvals.

Use the OEM spec oil with the builders approval, this cannot be over stated. BITOG shouldn't overrule the OEM recommendations.


Red Line 5w30 is dexos1, MB 229.x, and VW 502 approved as well as ILSAC GF-4 and ACEA A3. Pretty sure that Red Line 0w30 is MB 229.5 and VW 503 approved as well as ACEA A5.
 
Originally Posted By: DFrost
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: E46M3
I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Redline and I plan to by it in the 5 gallon bucket. So, I am confused with the weight that I should use..............I plan on changing the oil every 6k to 7.5k miles..................I don't plan on tracking the car so I don't need an oil for track purposes but it does see WOT often but only in short intervals.


So you are not going to track the car, then you don't need Redline.

Overrated track use only oil and overkill, not required etc for street use IMO as its very expensive with no builder approvals.

Use the OEM spec oil with the builders approval, this cannot be over stated. BITOG shouldn't overrule the OEM recommendations.


Red Line 5w30 is dexos1, MB 229.x, and VW 502 approved as well as ILSAC GF-4 and ACEA A3. Pretty sure that Red Line 0w30 is MB 229.5 and VW 503 approved as well as ACEA A5.



No Redline oil is manufacturer approved. They only claim to meet or surpass the spec.
 
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Overrated track use only oil


An opinion, do you care to substantiate it?

Quote:
and overkill, not required etc for street use IMO as its very expensive with no builder approvals.


Pretty much any thread that contains the words "Red Line" and user "virginoil" I can except to see a variation of this reply. I've seen no data from you, I've seen no valid observations or experiences, just "it doesn't have builder approvals". Guess what, Red Line wouldn't be selling for $10/quart if it carried API/ILSAC certs, which is a prerequisite for almost any North American OEM approval. Last time I checked Red Line's yearly revenue was only a few million dollars.

Quote:
Use the OEM spec oil with the builders approval, this cannot be over stated. BITOG shouldn't overrule the OEM recommendations.


The car is no longer stock.
 
Originally Posted By: E46M3
I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Redline and I plan to by it in the 5 gallon bucket. So, I am confused with the weight that I should use.
I live in NC and it doesn't get that cold but our summers are pretty hot. I drive my car about 10k per year and my typical drive is 12 miles to and from work.
It rarely sees long drives, meaning 100 miles or more. I would say maybe 5 times a year would I drive 100 miles or more on one trip.
I plan on changing the oil every 6k to 7.5k miles.
I don't plan on tracking the car so I don't need an oil for track purposes but it does see WOT often but only in short intervals.

The only difference between Red Line 0w30 and Red Line 0W-40 is that the later contains more polymer VIIs.
The reason I suggested Red Line 0w30 is that it's very shear stable and therefore you won't likely test the minimum viscosity requirements for your engine. Since you won't be tracking your car you likely won't be seeing high oil temp's dispite the higher boost levels (how long can you keep your foot in it? A few seconds at a time?)
Anyway, anyone with a modified engine should have a fully operational oil pressure gauge. This tells you exactly what your operational viscosity is at any given time and therefore is how you fine tune your oil viscosity choice to your own application.
 
I really could care less if the oil that I use is BMW LL01 or not. I am simply looking for the best oil for my application. Redline and other small oil companies don't get these approvals because it costs lots of money and I am sure that they cannot justify that cost.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: E46M3
I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Redline and I plan to by it in the 5 gallon bucket. So, I am confused with the weight that I should use.
I live in NC and it doesn't get that cold but our summers are pretty hot. I drive my car about 10k per year and my typical drive is 12 miles to and from work.
It rarely sees long drives, meaning 100 miles or more. I would say maybe 5 times a year would I drive 100 miles or more on one trip.
I plan on changing the oil every 6k to 7.5k miles.
I don't plan on tracking the car so I don't need an oil for track purposes but it does see WOT often but only in short intervals.

The only difference between Red Line 0w30 and Red Line 0W-40 is that the later contains more polymer VIIs.
The reason I suggested Red Line 0w30 is that it's very shear stable and therefore you won't likely test the minimum viscosity requirements for your engine. Since you won't be tracking your car you likely won't be seeing high oil temp's dispite the higher boost levels (how long can you keep your foot in it? A few seconds at a time?)
Anyway, anyone with a modified engine should have a fully operational oil pressure gauge. This tells you exactly what your operational viscosity is at any given time and therefore is how you fine tune your oil viscosity choice to your own application.


The N54 tends to have high temps anyways, whether you are tracking the car or not. I typically see 235 to 240 degrees during the hot summer months. Would the 0w40 keep the temps down better than 0w30, 5w30 or 5w40?
 
So you have an oil temp gauge but not an oil pressure gauge?
240F (115C) if we're talking oil temp's is not particularly hot and I'm sure if that's as hot as it get's the Red Line 0w30 is more than fine.

Actually heavier oil tends to increase oil temp's due to the reduced flow which is another reason not to run an oil heavier than necessary.

BTW, if you wanted to compromise, you could run a 50/50 blend of the Red Line 0w30 and 0W-40 which will give you a net HTHSV 3.6cP oil and for sure you don't need anything heavier than that.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
So you have an oil temp gauge but not an oil pressure gauge?
240F (115C) if we're talking oil temp's is not particularly hot and I'm sure if that's as hot as it get's the Red Line 0w30 is more than fine.

Actually heavier oil tends to increase oil temp's due to the reduced flow which is another reason not to run an oil heavier than necessary.

BTW, if you wanted to compromise, you could run a 50/50 blend of the Red Line 0w30 and 0W-40 which will give you a net HTHSV 3.6cP oil and for sure you don't need anything heavier than that.


That is correct I have an oil temp gauge and no oil pressure gauge. Temps can go as high as about 260 if you are driving it very hard but it will go into limp mode if it gets much hotter than that.
 
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Okay.
I'd go with Red Line 0w30 since it is as heavy if not heavier than the spec' BMW 5w30 oil in service.
If you want to play it more conservatively, substitute 2 or 3 quarts of Red Line 0W-40 with your next oil change.
 
^ Agreed, and that's what I'm likely doing. 1:1 of the 0w30 and 0w40 gives you a high VI but HTHS of 3.5+ per the manufacturer requirement.
 
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