Group III or Group IV steaks

[Cicero17]

I saw a post comparing Mobil 1 using Group III oil to a restaurant substituting top sirloin when you order fillet mignon.

I have a comparison that I think is relevant.

A local grocery sells a 6 oz bacon wrapped fillet for $ 1 each. They made a mistake in pricing and I bought a box of 30 for $ 10. What I got was pressed chuck with other additives. Now how do I know that? It was printed right on the package, that's how.

So, I don't have any complaints. I got a better price, even at a buck each than real fillet. The real fillet would have tasted a lot better, but there was no deception.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask every single oil manufacturer/blender to tell us what the oil is made up of. All of us feel better when we know what we are buying.

I searched high and low for information when I bought my TDI 2 years ago, that is how I ended up here. I ended up choosing Motul based on the flash point and pour point as much as anything else. With any oil, and especially when you have turbo, flash point is very relevant. In cold weather both pour point and flash point are relevant.

So now you have the opinion of a Certified Public Accountant.

Don

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

If I get 30 qts of Mobil 1 for $30....I won't care if it is Group III. I still have lost all trust in, and respect for Mobil 1, and XOM.

How would you feel if you if the 30 filets cost $5.92 each and you didn't get a slightly dishonest pricing mistake... but instead you spend full price and now how 30 chuck steaks shot with additives for almost $180.00 ?

 

[Cicero17]

I think my point was that I did know what I was buying because it was disclosed right on the package.

I was not dishonest in taking advantage of the pricing mistake. The meat department worker was standing right there as I picked up the box and told me since it was priced that way they would honor it. Heck, I am the one who pointed the error out and I only took one box and let her reprice the rest.

I would also point out that every answer Mobil 1 has given on their blends they have said their mix includes PAO, so its not like the oil us pure Group III. That doesn't mean I will buy it, since other oils are a better value, but I do like the bashing to make sense and be fair. Also, it will be a while before my Mobil 1 stash is depleted, so maybe things will change back by then.

Don

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Fair enough! But Mobil 1 is not clearly labeled.

And Mobil Drive Clean 7500 is possibly also a Group III with some Group IV or V.

How to I tell what something is worth in this environment?

Pennzoil Platinum is easy if it is super cheap...I can assume it is Group III, probably not as good as Mobil 1 no matter how it is formulated.

But at 84% off on sale, with rebate...PP should be fine for non critical applications.

 

[B00SS]

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I think my point was that I did know what I was buying because it was disclosed right on the package.

Don

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If only ex-mobil would be so forthcoming.

 

[LouDawg]

Cicero, that was my little story...glad you remembered it.

I understand your point, but it's not exactly the same thing. The things that some of us have the biggest problems with Mobil 1 have less to do with how "good" it is or isn't than:

1. Hypocrisy - the old Castrol debate from 1998/1999 about what "true" synthetic is or isn't, only to do a quiet 180 a few years later

2. Evasiveness - won't answer direct questions about general (not proprietary) base oil changes...no one's asking how much, where, etc...just ARE they using GIII?

3. Bait & switch - selling it on the market as if it's PAO at PAO prices when it's probably GIII...there IS a difference

Hey, people can use what they want. In the end, it's all about what performs best in your particular applications. But at least this is I think why some people don't like or trust them...I could be wrong.

Cheers!

 

[PT1]

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I think my point was that I did know what I was buying because it was disclosed right on the package.

/quote]

Sorry, but there is no law that requires that level of disclosure to the public. It is really silly to think that a corporation would publish it's secret formulas. SO, unless XOM decides to market Mobil1 for human consumption they won't be required to disclose what is in it. I believe that's fair since 200 Chinese companies would steal the formula and begin producing China Synthetic 1 for sale at Walmart for $1.50/qt.

 

[ekpolk]

Read carefully PT, no one is asking for the precise formula. If the Chinese want to put China-1 on the market, they could do so at any time. Chinese government chemists (and every major oil company on earth) have ample resources with which they can reverse engineer a competitor's product any time they feel like it. And I'm sure they all do it to one another's products, all the time, of course, intending to keep one step ahead of the "other guy." Naturally, all that happens behind a dark curtain of secrecy. A little candor from XOM would gain them much respect, while giving competitors nothing they don't surely already have.

They just don't want the customers, to whom they've been pitching the virtues of PAO all this time, to see what they've done.

 

[Shannow]

PT1, ekpolk's point is exactly that. They don't need to publish a "nutritional label" on the side (even 'though I'd like it, and it still wouldn't facilitate reverse engineering).

The chuck/fillet analogy works well. They are putting fillet on the menu (particularly with their historical actions such as labelling, marketting and taking competitors to task...BTW, how did they work out Castrol had GrIII ? Castrol didn't tell them) while not actually telling you that it's no longer fillet.

:OT: Look at Frank and Auto-Rx. You can dig up enough information on the internet and this site to believe that you could make it yourself...his product still hasn't been attacked, and still has a sound following.

 

[Mike94SE]

Am I the only one seeing S&M with this?

 

[babyhuey]

i think m1 was the second shooter on the grassy knoll.I also heard they HAD to shutdown several refineries to hide WMD's in them.I also have proof m1 causes ED and male pattern baldness......

 

[Steelhead]

where's the BEEF?

or if you're eating at the Double Arches, how's that kangaroo burger taste?

 

[ekpolk]

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Am I the only one seeing S&M with this?

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No, you're not. I expect customers to continue openly expressing resentment about this for roughly the same length of time that Mobil was touting the benefits of their "true" synthetic M1 -- several decades. . .

Remember now, no one is being forced at gunpoint to come in and view these tiresome threads.

 

[B00SS]

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Sorry, but there is no law that requires that level of disclosure to the public. It is really silly to think that a corporation would publish it's secret formulas. SO, unless XOM decides to market Mobil1 for human consumption they won't be required to disclose what is in it. I believe that's fair since 200 Chinese companies would steal the formula and begin producing China Synthetic 1 for sale at Walmart for $1.50/qt.

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Sorry, there is also no law requiring that we buy their oil. We can ask for disclosure of their base oils. They can refuse to divulge. We can refuse to buy their product. Will we break ex-Mobil? Likely not. But if they don't make record profits next year, we can consider our actions an impact.

 

[PT1]

You guys are all just XOM haters.....I couldn't care less about their formula. I am driven by oil price because all the synthetics do basically the same with the only real boutique synthetics being Amsoil & Redline IMO. Amsoil & Redline are the only oils I would personally trust for an extended OCI anyway. Mobil1 was never on that list for me because there products test like garbage in our lab at work. Only the guys like Amsoil & Redline who rely on their reputation for their daily bread will fess up when they make a formula change...so why waste the energy is my point. XOM couldn't care less because they are selling to the big fish.

 

[ekpolk]

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You guys are all just XOM haters.....I couldn't care less about their formula
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PT, just stop before you dig yourself all the way to center of the earth. You are dead wrong in claiming that I'm a "XOM hater". I see that they make some fine products, to this day, including some of the M1 line. I do sharply disagree with their conduct in this matter. We've all been over the "why" part enough times that I'll skip it here. I buy German Castrol from Castrol, though I don't like what they did 10 years ago starting this whole G-III mess. I will be happy to do business with XOM again in the future if I decide it's in my best interest, and that it won't make me puke. XOM is just another big oil company, but at the moment, they're the ones with their pants down and their hands in the cookie jar.

You're also incorrect about the disclosure factor. As I, and many other members here, have said repeatedly, XOM in the past has been only too happy to trumpet their formulation tweaks -- when to do so made them look good. They were very quick to explain what "TriSynthetic" meant when they trotted out that name (PAO, esters, and alkylated napthalenes, IIRC, right out of XOM's corporate mouth). So yes, they sure will and can tell -- if they want to. Their refusal to do so now only makes them look even worse.

You are correct about one thing. They are selling to a huge market, much of which has no awareness of this mess. As another member just pointed out, it's up to XOM how they conduct themselves, and it's up to us as individuals to decide how we respond. So, speaking for those who see this as I do, you XOM apologists will just have to bite the bullet and hear the complaints, 'cause we ain't shuttin' up (and we ain't buyin' the product) until XOM decides to change course.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I think the whole point of this thread lies in the mistrust some now have with XOM. My discontinuance of the product no longer has anything to do with it's composition or price. It's all about trust & the disgust over XOM's sideways mouth-replies when emailing posters here with answers to their questions. Most-all replies by XOM create more questions than answers.

 

[Shannow]

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You guys are all just XOM haters.....I couldn't care less about their formula.

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Yep, that\s why every fluid in both my vehicles was Mobil, and I recommended the various grades of M1 and Delvac oils to any workmate or friend who would listen.

Since their change in stance, I have changed my stance, being able to buy a Castrol GrIII product for half the price of M1.

 

[LouDawg]

Mmmmmm...mmmmmmmm...mmmmmmm....mmmmmmm....FILET!

Mmmmmm...mmmmmmmm...mmmmmmm....mmmmmmm....

 

[PT1]

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You guys are all just XOM haters.....I couldn't care less about their formula.

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Yep, that\s why every fluid in both my vehicles was Mobil, and I recommended the various grades of M1 and Delvac oils to any workmate or friend who would listen.

Since their change in stance, I have changed my stance, being able to buy a Castrol GrIII product for half the price of M1.

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That's just an excuse for opting for the cheapest brand. What loyalty is left anywhere.....look at the Asian carmakers....they are loyal to themselves only...as all of America drives their Toyotas & Hondas and curses GM and Ford. So what CEO in his right mind wouldn't go GrpIII and milk his product line to death? This country is like the NFL in that the citizens are so spoiled that they ask "what did you do for me today" then run to the next fad product made cheaper by Wallyworld.....so product life cycles that were once decades long only last a year or two. So goes Mobil1 GPIV...that's all. Now they will have 6 Mobil1 flavors because 8 high performance car makers use it as factory fill....dominate the shelves at WalMart and kiss the oil a fond farewell...they couldn't care less about us because we are like a pimple on an Elephant...and if I were the CEO of XOM...I would do exactly the same thing...make hay while the sun shines boys...because China1 is right around the corner.....