Group III and Auto-RX

[spraiski]

Hello all,

I am looking for a little more info about the relationship between group III oils (something like rotella 0-40 is group III, correct?) and auto-rx.

I have heard it mentioned a few times on this group that it is OK to use group III because it has a conventional based origin, but can't seem to find anything on it from someone with intimate knowledge of oils and auto-rx (like Terry, Molekule, or Frank).

Can a group III be considered in the same light as conventional oil when used with auto-rx (during both the cleaning and rinse phases)?

I suspect that the answer lies in the additives used with each particular group III concoction - any ideas?

Thanks,
Spraiski

[ November 01, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: spraiski ]

 

[Flimflam]

That's exactly what I thought of asking, but was too busy the past few days to log in & post.

I mean, if Group III is not a "real" synthetic, it should be O.K. to use Group III in an Auto-Rx cycle, yes?

Frank? How about it?

 

[spraiski]

Well, I've done some more digging and modified my search terms...and it looks to me like Group III is as good as any dino.

Topic: Paging Frank from AutoRX - in this thread, a synthetic blend (15-20% PAO) is indicated by Frank as being fine for both clean & rinse cycles.

Topic: ARX question - towards the bottom of this thread it Molekule indicates that "Most of the esters in the latter would be from additive packs, which are inconsequential because they would be at such low levels." The 'latter', if I understand correctly, includes Group III synthetics.

Overall, it looks to me like combos consisting of mostly Group IV or Group V are the problems.

I surmise that this is because Group V in any significant quantity competes for space on engine parts, and Group IV doesn't make seals all warm and fuzzy like group I,II, or III does.

Do I have all of this right, or having I been huffing too much GC, FP and LC?

Spraiski

 

[Audi Junkie]

Rotella T 5w-40 is perfect for longer intervals, but not needed for short ARX intervals. I would not overspend if you could find Mobil DCO 5w30 with GF-4, it is G-III for $1.20/q. I used Delvac 1300S 15w40, the G-I componet has a better chance at "solubility" of the ARX additive and the sludge.

 

[MolaKule]

There shoould be no problem with Group III oils, but why spend the extra cash for short change intervals. Just use a SuperTech or Chevron or Pennzoil, or something similar (as per the ARX web site) and save some bucks; then use the Group III for the longer term after the cleaning cycle.

 

[Eiron]

Hi spraiski,

Take a look at this post from Auto-Rx's chemical formulation consultant Rick Eklund (via Frank's cut & paste). This comment from the last large paragraph is what you're looking for: "May I also note that many group III dino derived/refined base oils are marketed as full synthetic. ARX will work great with these as well."

 

[spraiski]

Thanks for your help guys. I wanted to see if I correctly (or incorrectly) understood some of the chemical similarities (and differences) of different types of base oils and their interactions with auto-rx.

That said, the economics of using sythetics for short oil change intervals is quite real.

Spraiski

 

[peterr]

A related question.

Can a Group III be considered as a Conventional oil for routine use after completing Auto-RX cycles?

I have a high mileage engine which consumes a lot of oil. I am in the rinse phase of the first of the two recommended Auto-RX cycles, using Castrol GTX Conventional. My understanding is that for the high mileage/sludge programs, you don't generally want to go back to Synthetic after your Auto RX program, as you will eventually lose the conditioning effect on seals.

Would it be a bad idea to use something like Castrol Syntec (GroupIII?) after finishing my AutoRX?

 

[Rick20]

There is no problem running a group III, after ARX in a high mileage car. The only concern that would exist is if you were slowing or stopping a seal leak. You want to run at least a full run on dino after the application before synthetics are introduced or reintroduced. I look at group III base stock as simply further cleaned up dino. Group III oils would be a good choice to add ARX on the back end of an oil change, the last 1500 miles. Especially true if running extended intervals on group III.

 

[mettech_2001]

Currently on the 2nd cleaning w/Auto-Rx.. Ran Quaker State conventional 10w30 after the 1st cleaning... During the 2nd cleaning, oil lead gone...

I will now change to MC 5W-20 for the rinse phase.. Maybe not the best for the rinse, but due to winter temps, I want a cheap, and thin oil... If the leak comes back, I will introduce the 89 Honda w/138K miles to Aut-Rx again next spring...

Auto-Rx works.. The 2.0L Honda was using 1Qt of oil /1500 miles... Also the performance is greatly increased and so is the MPG... I now get around 1.1 - 2.8 miles / gallon more...

One more item to note: During the 1st rinse and the 2nd cleaning, the oil became VERY thick... almost like a stright 50W when cold.... That's why I want a very thin 2nd phase rinse oil for winter..

 

[Frank]

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Icon 1 posted November 06, 2004 06:50 AM Profile for Frank Email Frank Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Synthetic Oil can't effectively be used as rinse oil.You don't want liquified contaminants clinging to the metal, you want them rinsed off and out of engines.

Some of the additives in the makeup of the complex additive package in synthetic oil do not lend themselves to rinseing.

The additives in a "Conventional Oil all lend themself to this rinse mode. Please take out your synthetic oil for rinse step. As soon as your done go back to synthetic oil.

Using synthetic oil for cleaning phase (1500 miles)is okay.

[ November 06, 2004, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: Frank ]