Grok cannot detect AI content - defends Chinese propaganda

No. I just have life outside the forum.

That's a typical response to being caught out, so understandable.

While enjoying that life, I suggest you look into the "enlightenment and renesaince" a bit more.

Your writings on that caused me some serious depression.
 
That's a typical response to being caught out, so understandable.

While enjoying that life, I suggest you look into the "enlightenment and renesaince" a bit more.

Your writings on that caused me some serious depression.
you remind me of one candidate close to retirement that wanted assistant position aftwr being chair, so she could retire in CO. She couldn’t help herself and started “advise,” my friend who was director of the program how to do it.
Earth keeps spinning after retirement and people move on.
 
you remind me of one candidate close to retirement that wanted assistant position aftwr being chair, so she could retire in CO. She couldn’t help herself and started “advise,” my friend who was director of the program how to do it.
Earth keeps spinning after retirement and people move on.

Oh, I retired from my faculty position but I'm still in the higher education game.

And this interaction is going to be worked up as a case study.

A professor-- and chair!-- who makes haughty pronouncements as to throwing students out of a program if there is any hint of AI use, and then tries to craft a support of that pronouncement that is so garbled, inconsistent, poorly written, and directly contradicted by fact it's a prime example of how AI can be transformative in helping those who are weak in expository writing?

That's pure gold, man!
 
Oh, I retired from my faculty position but I'm still in the higher education game.

And this interaction is going to be worked up as a case study.

A professor-- and chair!-- who makes haughty pronouncements as to throwing students out of a program if there is any hint of AI use, and then tries to craft a support of that pronouncement that is so garbled, inconsistent, poorly written, and directly contradicted by fact it's a prime example of how AI can be transformative in helping those who are weak in expository writing?

That's pure gold, man!
Here is another suggestion. You can publish this: people having interaction with another people outside forum and not caring about my need to feel relevant.
 
Human follows guideline after a committee decide what is the best compromise a decision maker can do and set boundary for the rule. Won't solve all problems but that's what? A starting point?

AI will have to do the same, you can't just let AI do everything like you can't let a 15 year old do everything after he finish reading 200 books. I wouldn't let a 15 year old do my surgery unless there are procedure he or she must follow like a real surgeon. Human has to pass exams and do residency, AI will eventually do the same.
I wouldn't let a genius 15-year-old perform surgery. Alot of complicated tasks take years to learn and muscle memory. Working in a hospital I speak with many vendor reps of products. Some surgeons now use a control that inputs their motions into a robotic arm/hand that is really precise.
 
Here is another suggestion. You can publish this: people having interaction with another people outside forum and not caring about my need to feel relevant.
Again, that sentence is so poorly constructed it's impossible to know for certain what you mean, so I'll just let it go.

However, I am part of a new movement that's taking on a critical review of the whole university concept, and I can tell you that your attitude (typical of many university faculty) has a high probability of implementing your own irrelevance in the (relatively) near future.

Relevant to the topic here, let me ask you this: signaling or human capital? And how would AI (or the lack of it) affect your answer?

Genuinely interested in your take on that.

Feel free to utilize AI (or your wife, girlfriend, lover, mistress, etc.) if you need help "writing" a reasonably coherent response.
 
Again, that sentence is so poorly constructed it's impossible to know for certain what you mean, so I'll just let it go.

However, I am part of a new movement that's taking on a critical review of the whole university concept, and I can tell you that your attitude (typical of many university faculty) has a high probability of implementing your own irrelevance in the (relatively) near future.

Relevant to the topic here, let me ask you this: signaling or human capital? And how would AI (or the lack of it) affect your answer?

Genuinely interested in your take on that.

Feel free to utilize AI (or your wife, girlfriend, lover, mistress, etc.) if you need help "writing" a reasonably coherent response.
I wish you all the luck with the movement.
 
There are actual statistics on how many people are in "relationships" with some form of AI. They number might shock you.

It is not simple at all. But it is nefarious.
There are predictions that in the near future, maybe 10 years, people will become "married" to AI "partners". There have already been relationships, including an engagement (according to a Vivek R YT video) that has been canceled.

1000's of romance novels have been uploaded to create theme models, notably Meta's Llama which was busted for buying 10's of thousands (if not more) books, and scanning them in into their model.
 
There are predictions that in the near future, maybe 10 years, people will become "married" to AI "partners". There have already been relationships, including an engagement (according to a Vivek R YT video) that has been canceled.

1000's of romance novels have been uploaded to create theme models, notably Meta's Llama which was busted for buying 10's of thousands (if not more) books, and scanning them in into their model.

This phenomenon will increase exponentially as robotics reaches maturation. Weirdly enough, I think that the fast-developing sex robot market is going to be the real game-changer on that front.

I believe that there is a very high probability that by 2050, approximately half our current understanding of every aspect of the world will be completely moot.
 
Like I said, I can’t help you staying relevant.

Like you said? In fact, you said that you had a need to be relevant:

Here is another suggestion. You can publish this: people having interaction with another people outside forum and not caring about my need to feel relevant.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone who struggles as much with written communication as you do.

Every response is like a puzzle that needs to be solved to figure out what you're trying to say.

Given that, I think it's best that I disengage with you. I think I have all I need from you and trying walk you through how to properly support an argument is appearing to be a "fool's errand."

Thanks for your well-wishes, and I'll let you have the last word.

Good luck to you in your work!
 
Like you said? In fact, you said that you had a need to be relevant:



I don't think I've ever seen anyone who struggles as much with written communication as you do.

Every response is like a puzzle that needs to be solved to figure out what you're trying to say.

Given that, I think it's best that I disengage with you. I think I have all I need from you and trying walk you through how to properly support an argument is appearing to be a "fool's errand."

Thanks for your well-wishes, and I'll let you have the last word.

Good luck to you in your work!
Idk. Have you tried playing with grandkids? It might help you.
 
As a reminder to all ...

Do NOT post any AI generated content on BITOG; none whatsoever.
Some posts have already been deleted for this policy violation.

You may discuss AI, but don't put AI content (text, photos, images, etc) in public view on BITOG.
Curiosity, are you leveraging AI yet for moderation at least flagging posts for moderators to review?
 
I have to believe @edyvw made his class understand that the paper was not to be AI generated; it was to be written by the students.
I also believe the student asked the question in all honesty; he has grown up with computers and naturally taps into the biggest library in the world.

Perhaps another assignment might be, take an AI generated paper and have the students analyze it.

But what do I know, I am just a lowly programmer.
In that vein, I have seen a lot of AI generated code. Some of it is very tight; a lot in one line of code with functions imbedded into other functions numerous levels deep.
I used to be known for code like that; I was the hot shot programmer. A friend, who became my 1st mentor, talked to me about it during an impromptu code review. Dave praised me, and then told me he would never write like that. I was shocked at the gentle put down. "What happens when you have to revisit that functionality? Or worse, when someone else has to deal with it?"

I learned a lot that day.
 
I have to believe @edyvw made his class understand that the paper was not to be AI generated; it was to be written by the students.
I also believe the student asked the question in all honesty; he has grown up with computers and naturally taps into the biggest library in the world.

Perhaps another assignment might be, take an AI generated paper and have the students analyze it.

But what do I know, I am just a lowly programmer.
In that vein, I have seen a lot of AI generated code. Some of it is very tight; a lot in one line of code with functions imbedded into other functions numerous levels deep.
I used to be known for code like that; I was the hot shot programmer. A friend, who became my 1st mentor, talked to me about it during an impromptu code review. Dave praised me, and then told me he would never write like that. I was shocked at the gentle put down. "What happens when you have to revisit that functionality? Or worse, when someone else has to deal with it?"

I learned a lot that day.
There is nothing wrong using world biggest library. Almost all literature is now available through internet. Even oldest literature today has DOI number. AI is involved in that without many realizing that all search engines enhanced capability using AI.
But that is different from having “someone “ do your work and than claim that as your intellectual property.
 
Ok, many have made their points but let us cease the argumentation.

Take your argumentation offline, or we'll have to close this thread.
 
I have to believe @edyvw made his class understand that the paper was not to be AI generated; it was to be written by the students.
I also believe the student asked the question in all honesty; he has grown up with computers and naturally taps into the biggest library in the world.

Perhaps another assignment might be, take an AI generated paper and have the students analyze it.

But what do I know, I am just a lowly programmer.
In that vein, I have seen a lot of AI generated code. Some of it is very tight; a lot in one line of code with functions imbedded into other functions numerous levels deep.
I used to be known for code like that; I was the hot shot programmer. A friend, who became my 1st mentor, talked to me about it during an impromptu code review. Dave praised me, and then told me he would never write like that. I was shocked at the gentle put down. "What happens when you have to revisit that functionality? Or worse, when someone else has to deal with it?"

I learned a lot that day.
I think people have been copying homework and cheat on test for a long time. In the end a test is to judge a person's ability and level of skill. If it is easily done by a tool then the test should raise the bar rather than blame it. There are plenty of open book test and test with calculator allowed.

Maybe our future would be open to use AI test and you have to point out the flaw of the AI's argument. This would turn the table against them real quick and make them really go through what AI said.

I have been catching people cheat on interview using either outside help (friend texting them) or AI. When you ask them deeper question on what they just said they got stuck, and frustrated when you keep digging them and not letting go.
 
This morning, I woke up to this in my email inbox. It links to a paper that is very interesting, one that I think has something significant to add to the discussion in this thread.

Gist of This Paper:
While testing Mokyr’s thesis (that the primary Enlightenment ideal that was key to Britain’s Industrial Revolution was a progress‑oriented view of science), they found that:

1) Science secularized from religion by the mid‑18th century.
2) A progress-oriented mindset (due to that secularization) rose most strongly in the applied areas of science (i.e., not in “pure science”).
3) Industrial texts using science expressed in the language of political economy were especially progress‑oriented.

Conclusion:
During the Enlightenment, literate artisans and craftsmen encountered applied, industrial works of writing that had a strong progress-oriented mindset embedded in the language. The fact that they were literate was a necessary condition, but the decisive factor in industrialization was the diffusion of a progress-oriented mindset.

Bottom Line:
Enlightenment-era industrialization was more a function of embracing progress, not literacy.

---------

More Insight Based On a Second Paper:
On page 2 of the paper discussed above, there is an interesting mention of Enlightenment-era literacy rates in England, with a citation in footnote 4. Looking at that paper, I found a related but even more concrete support of the importance of progress-oriented mindset over literacy.

Gist of the Second Paper:
While looking at book production in Western Europe (500–1800) compared to other areas of the world at that time, and then correlating the different book production levels with long‑term economic development of the different regions, they found:

1) Book production grew in Europe ~1% annually, accelerating after 1454 with the printing press.
2) Falling book prices + rising literacy created a mass market for books.
3) The mass availability of books during the Enlightenment correlated directly with Europe’s industrialization.
4) Suppression of the printing press in the Middle East (Ottoman Empire, specifically*) over the same period limited diffusion of information despite literacy.
5) The limited availability of books in the Middle East correlated directly with the failure of Enlightenment-era industrialization in that area.

* The paper recounts how the Ottoman Empire, embracing a more Luddite-oriented mindset and banning the new technology of the printing press, was likely to have virtually eliminated industrialization despite higher literacy rates than in England.

Conclusion of Second Paper:
Embrace of the new, progressive technology of the printing press (not literacy rates) during the Enlightenment correlated directly to whether a society experienced industrial revolution or stagnated following the Enlightenment. These correlations provide strong evidence that, while literacy mattered, without cheap, abundant books, industrialization was stunted despite widespread literacy.

Bottom Line:
There are correlative data to support the hypothesis that Enlightenment-era industrialization was more a function of embracing progress, not literacy.

-------------

Overall Conclusion of the Two Papers Combined:
Taken together, I think it is fair to conclude that there is strong evidence that Europe’s triumph of industrialization was plausibly driven by embrace of progress-oriented new technology (specifically, the printing press) during the Enlightenment, rather than literacy rates (which actually lagged other societies that did not industrialize).

------------

My Interpretation of the Relationship of These Research Results to This Thread:
I believe that if you substitute “AI” for “printing press” you can see that the different opinions today as to how to approach student use of AI in the classroom very closely parallels the different approaches to adoption of the printing press during the Enlightenment. I believe the research I cite here makes a very strong case that there is far more danger to the development of any society that bans the use of AI in the classroom than there is to a society that tries to find a way to incorporate AI into a more modern pedagogy.

Together, I think these two papers present strong evidence that anyone who implements blanket AI bans in the classroom, presented as Enlightenment wisdom, has clearly not learned those lessons themselves and have their conclusions 180 degrees backward.

These papers support what I believe to be the true lesson of the Enlightenment: There is great risk in clinging to an anti-progress mindset, a mindset that can do irreparable damage to a society.

------------

TL; DR Summary:
My response to points made in the thread regarding what the Enlightenment has to say about AI in the classroom: Adopting a Luddite/Ottoman mindset risks repeating the Enlightenment’s failures. Instead, America should follow England’s path of Enlightenment success: Embrace new technologies and reap their rewards.

---------

That is all.
 
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