Grid-scale battery fire in upstate New York

[OVERKILL]

Solar farm fire in Upstate New York sends possible toxic smoke billowing into surrounding community

In a statement, Gov. Kathy Hochul said that the "large battery fire" had "caused significant damage and is emitting large amounts of smoke that may pose health risks."

www.cbsnews.com

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul issued an advisory Thursday night due to potentially toxic smoke billowing from a battery fire at a solar farm burning near the Canadian border.
CBS affiliate WWNY-TV reports that the fire broke out at about 1 p.m. Eastern time at a solar farm in the Jefferson County town of Lyme, located on Lake Ontario.

In a statement, Hochul said that the "large battery fire" had "caused significant damage and is emitting large amounts of smoke that may pose health risks."

Residents within a mile of the facility were told to shelter in place, WWNY reported. Video footage showed heavy flames and smoke rising hundreds of feet in the air.

Residents told to shelter in place due to potentially toxic smoke from solar farm fire

Potentially toxic smoke is coming from a fire at a Jefferson County solar farm.

www.wwnytv.com

 

[OVERKILL]

This is at least the 7th grid-scale battery fire I am aware of.

I don't believe a pumped storage facility has ever caught fire, despite many of them being over 50 years old (Beck PGS is 66).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Solar farm fire in Upstate New York sends possible toxic smoke billowing into surrounding community

In a statement, Gov. Kathy Hochul said that the "large battery fire" had "caused significant damage and is emitting large amounts of smoke that may pose health risks."

www.cbsnews.com

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul issued an advisory Thursday night due to potentially toxic smoke billowing from a battery fire at a solar farm burning near the Canadian border.
CBS affiliate WWNY-TV reports that the fire broke out at about 1 p.m. Eastern time at a solar farm in the Jefferson County town of Lyme, located on Lake Ontario.

In a statement, Hochul said that the "large battery fire" had "caused significant damage and is emitting large amounts of smoke that may pose health risks."

Residents within a mile of the facility were told to shelter in place, WWNY reported. Video footage showed heavy flames and smoke rising hundreds of feet in the air.

Residents told to shelter in place due to potentially toxic smoke from solar farm fire

Potentially toxic smoke is coming from a fire at a Jefferson County solar farm.

www.wwnytv.com

View attachment 169257

So arson, vandalism, equipment failure?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Solar farm fire in Upstate New York sends possible toxic smoke billowing into surrounding community

In a statement, Gov. Kathy Hochul said that the "large battery fire" had "caused significant damage and is emitting large amounts of smoke that may pose health risks."

www.cbsnews.com

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul issued an advisory Thursday night due to potentially toxic smoke billowing from a battery fire at a solar farm burning near the Canadian border.
CBS affiliate WWNY-TV reports that the fire broke out at about 1 p.m. Eastern time at a solar farm in the Jefferson County town of Lyme, located on Lake Ontario.

In a statement, Hochul said that the "large battery fire" had "caused significant damage and is emitting large amounts of smoke that may pose health risks."

Residents within a mile of the facility were told to shelter in place, WWNY reported. Video footage showed heavy flames and smoke rising hundreds of feet in the air.

Residents told to shelter in place due to potentially toxic smoke from solar farm fire

Potentially toxic smoke is coming from a fire at a Jefferson County solar farm.

www.wwnytv.com

View attachment 169257

Everything is fine, really!

Seems like a not-so-great use of space considering the very small impact vs. quantity of "farms".

There are more than 5,000 solar farms across the U.S., according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. In 2022, they produced 3.4% of the nation's electricity, the agency said.

 

[OVERKILL]

So arson, vandalism, equipment failure?

Likely equipment failure, that's been the culprit in all of the others I know of. @Cujet and @JHZR2 have both commented on this subject previously.

This is one of the reason why I'm not sold on the idea of lithium-based battery storage as a grid solution. Pumped Hydro has a far better track record, as well as far, FAR longer lifespan.

 

[PimTac]

It reminds me of that big Tesla battery installation fire in Australia a couple of years ago or so.

 

[OVERKILL]

It reminds me of that big Tesla battery installation fire in Australia a couple of years ago or so.

Yep, that was before the plant was even commissioned!

There's been one facility in California that has caught fire twice

 

[PandaBear]

So I guess it is like a refinery fire?

I'm sure it would take some time before we learn how to manage battery fire better or what other safety we need to design in. I'm sure it took some time before steam, diesel, gasoline engines are mature to today's safety standard but it is inevitable.

 

[PandaBear]

Likely equipment failure, that's been the culprit in all of the others I know of. @Cujet and @JHZR2 have both commented on this subject previously.

This is one of the reason why I'm not sold on the idea of lithium-based battery storage as a grid solution. Pumped Hydro has a far better track record, as well as far, FAR longer lifespan.

Of course, but we can only find so many places to build pumped storage. Storing energy is always problematic which is why we have electrical grid in the first place. Maybe building better grid to balance out the load from one climate to another, one timezone to another, is a better use of money.

Or storage of heat (ice based AC, heat pump tanked water heater) locally.

 

[GMBoy]

Seems like everything being tried in the name of "being green" and to "save the environment" is actually more harmful and with no real tangible good benefits.

 

[Rmay635703]

So I guess it is like a refinery fire?

I'm sure it would take some time before we learn how to manage battery fire better or what other safety we need to design in. I'm sure it took some time before steam, diesel, gasoline engines are mature to today's safety standard but it is inevitable.

I’ve said it once I’ll say it again lithium has no place in grid storage.

There are non-flammable batteries available that tend to be cheaper, without mining concern and are more durable .

Sodium, flow batteries, you name it are better options.

 

[fsdork]

Seems like everything being tried in the name of "being green" and to "save the environment" is actually more harmful and with no real tangible good benefits.

Can't argue with a nuanced position like that.

 

[GMBoy]

Can't argue with a nuanced position like that.

Not sure if that is good or bad LOL

 

[JHZR2]

Seems like everything being tried in the name of "being green" and to "save the environment" is actually more harmful and with no real tangible good benefits.

Need to define tangible good benefits.

Hybrid cars, even with a more complex powertrain, yield far better MPGs in many cases.

Much of this is kind of like the pallet expander that my 10yo needed to have. Turn it once in the am, once in the pm. It hurts when turned. It’s slow. It sucks. It’s cumbersome. But imagine the outcome when done.

Many things will flop on the way. Fortunes made and lost, etc.

Some of it will be for the better when controlled, managed, and implemented consistently. When industry brings the cost down. Other stuff is a pipe dream and will always be.

 

[JHZR2]

Battery fire can mean many things. Is it really a battery fire, or was it really a converter, electronics, transformer, etc fire that spread to batteries? What were the batteries and chemistry? Cooling approach? Fire suppression approach? Are active fires being deluged? Were the containers set up for it?

Yeah, it’s hot. But BMS usually cut out at 60C thermistor temps, which is lower than internal cell temp. Separator melting doesn’t start until >100C. It’s not that hot outside. So what else happened?

Batteries are a liability. Sure. And batteries being run heavily will be more so. A system like this should be reasonably de rated. Especially in the warm of the battery really gets warm.

This could have been a fried electronics board or some other stupid root cause. We don’t condemn gasoline cars because now and again a fuel line leaks and creates a fire. That said, the power source has a way to go…

 

[dogememe]

I find it interesting that we don’t just connect the whole US grid together and help use that to help us out as peak usage times vary across the country based on time zone, weather, etc.

I know it’s a super complex system and interconnecting it is a logistical nightmare but anything is possible.

 

[repairman54]

Small town volunteer FD do not have the resources to promptly address these fires. Trend seems to be to locate these in rural areas. In my area in the ADK the nearest FD equipped to control these fires is 60 miles away. Jefferson County NY is rural.
A Co. is trying to build a lithium battery farm nearby, lots of lawn signs against it in the area.

 

[Trav]

The big difference IMO is the ease of gasoline fires are extinguished. I had an old Beetle in front of me on day, at the red light it caught fire in the rear, a hand held extinguisher put it out quickly. I also never heard of one catch fire cold on its own in the garage, there be a gallon of gas under it and as long as no one gets careless it is just a cleanup job.

 

[ripcord]

I find it interesting that we don’t just connect the whole US grid together and help use that to help us out as peak usage times vary across the country based on time zone, weather, etc.

I know it’s a super complex system and interconnecting it is a logistical nightmare but anything is possible.

You have to consider line loss. From everything I've read, on average over half the power is lost in transmission between generator and consumer. The farther you go, the worse the it gets. That's why there needs to be segmentation in the grid.

 

[Rmay635703]

Battery fire can mean many things. Is it really a battery fire, or was it really a converter, electronics, transformer, etc fire that spread to batteries? What were the batteries and

We don’t condemn gasoline cars because now and again a fuel line leaks and creates a fire. That said, the power source has a way to go…

It’s not an issue of condemn, (though dozens of power plant sized battery fires will do that)

It’s a matter of expectations.

If a historical Power plant type would have flamed even once it would have likely been banned. There is zero tolerance for failure of this magnitude on grid level devices .
It’s not like a car fire which affects a few people and a couple blocks is the same as a power plant burning.

Likewise there are things that are usually safe that are banned for a variety of applications. Some things are considered an unacceptable risk.

The majority of “battery fires” have been Lion. Lion does not belong in a large scale application like a power plant.

There are non-flammable battery chemistries, mandate them and move on from this fire issue.