Got new tires, but no Nitrogen.

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by 40w8

As you add air a few times the oxygen will have slipped out since much smaller molecule. As the tires age they should tighten up, and lose less air. My Hankook V12's were so hard at 4 years they held 35 psi for 2 more years.....not even kidding.

Do tell... Please, what is the Molecular size difference and the effect on permeability?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by Astro14

Originally Posted by 40w8

As you add air a few times the oxygen will have slipped out since much smaller molecule. As the tires age they should tighten up, and lose less air. My Hankook V12's were so hard at 4 years they held 35 psi for 2 more years.....not even kidding.

Do tell... Please, what is the Molecular size difference and the effect on permeability?

I don't quite get how the tires ageing and tightening up would work. I could marginally understand at some point the materials in the inner liner of the tire "consuming" or being oxidized by what's in the tire, and from there the rates decrease with diffusion rates and lengths. But for those interested, here's the answer:

Quote

Literature reports of kinetic diameters for O2 and N2 molecules, derived from several different types of experimental measurements, give slightly different values, but all show that O2 has a slightly smaller diameter than N2. The following examples expressed in Angstrom units demonstrate this (one Angstrom unit is 10 to the -10th power meters, i.e., one-ten-billionth of a meter): from gas viscosity data, O2 2.96 and N2 3.16 (difference 0.20); from van der Waal's interaction data, O2 2.90 and N2 3.14 (difference 0.24); from molecular refraction data, O2 2.34 and N2 2.40 (difference 0.06). Other experiments, less applicable to transport situations, such as from closest packing, when the two molecules exist in a frozen solid state at very low temperatures, still show O2 to be a smaller size than N2 (O2 3.75 and N2 4.00, difference 0.25).

Also

Quote

In Barrers, for a typical rubber material, the permeability coefficient P, is dependant on temperature, but at 25C (77F) for O2 is about 10 and for N2 is about 3.

No idea if that "typical rubber material" set includes tires with their materials choices, which I'd assume includes a liner thst is designed to prevent escape of any molecule. https://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf Interesting read. Practical benefit to passenger tires is minimal, but it does give some traceable physical parameters that are interesting. Dr. Murphy is legit, I had the chance to interact with him on a project once. Not sure if the final paragraph is legit though.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by mightymousetech

I have worked for both Acura, and now BMW. Both have service bulletins that using nitrogen in tires offers zero benefit to the customer over dried shop air, and should not be recommended or offered.

And the Sales Manager reads that, laughs, and tacks on an extra $ 199.99 for nitrogen filled tires ...

 

[The_Nuke]

Is the nitrogen sold for use in tires laced with a bitterant (sp?) or otherwise made undesirable to any human wishing to inhale it for its intoxicating effects? If not, they better start, lest the hippies and beatniks find out their next trip is literally carrying them around from unemployment office to panhandling corner every day, err, night. The last thing we need is a bunch of junkers clogging up traffic because they're sitting in the roadway with four (intentionally) flat tires.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by The_Nuke

Is the nitrogen sold for use in tires laced with a bitterant (sp?) or otherwise made undesirable to any human wishing to inhale it for its intoxicating effects? If not, they better start, lest the hippies and beatniks find out their next trip is literally carrying them around from unemployment office to panhandling corner every day, err, night. The last thing we need is a bunch of junkers clogging up traffic because they're sitting in the roadway with four (intentionally) flat tires.

What? Air is 78% nitrogen. Please learn some chemistry before posting.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by The_Nuke

Is the nitrogen sold for use in tires laced with a bitterant (sp?) or otherwise made undesirable to any human wishing to inhale it for its intoxicating effects?

You are thinking of N 2 O , nitrous oxide, otherwise known as laughing gas ... ! This is NOT what they put in tires, and is not what you breath ...

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Please learn some chemistry before posting.

What exactly would be the point of a forum if everyone already knew everything?

 

[kschachn]

Mine are filled with helium, that makes them light in weight and don't wear out as fast.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2

Originally Posted by kschachn

Please learn some chemistry before posting.

What exactly would be the point of a forum if everyone already knew everything?

What helps is if you know your limitations and try to be aware of them, rather than just posting stuff as if you are sure of the answer. Or ask a question.

 

[The_Nuke]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by The_Nuke

Is the nitrogen sold for use in tires laced with a bitterant (sp?) or otherwise made undesirable to any human wishing to inhale it for its intoxicating effects? If not, they better start, lest the hippies and beatniks find out their next trip is literally carrying them around from unemployment office to panhandling corner every day, err, night. The last thing we need is a bunch of junkers clogging up traffic because they're sitting in the roadway with four (intentionally) flat tires.

What? Air is 78% nitrogen. Please learn some chemistry before posting.

Way ahead of you, I've already got a periodic table shower curtain: I probably just need to take more showers...

 

[Skippy722]

Oxygen deprivation is a heck of a drug.

 

[Sayjac]

My preference in reading on the subject of the "practical" use of nitrogen in passenger car tires comes from the source of the youtube in the linked bitog thread. The promotional site linked earlier to explain it's theoretical use was/is already covered in comments there. So as noted, I'll be sticking the FOC 78% N type. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4281204/1 Or alternatively directly from the source. Top 10 Reasons Nitrogen Filled Tyres Are A Scam.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by Mr_Luke

I bought a set of 4 new Nankang NS20s and the guy at the new local tore store told me he doesn't think I need nitrogen in them. I used to run nitrogen. I used to seem to have tires that needed be be topped off with air every 1-2 months and the nitrogen seemed to help seal the tires and lessen my need to top them off so often. These tires have been on for 6 or 7 weeks and I don't think I've lost one pound yet. Thanks to this place I saved $100 on these tires and will spare myself of the $25 for nitrogen. As long as they hold their pressure, I'm fine with dry compressed air.

Good move, the air in your tires already contain 78% nitrogen. I dont think they will miss you paying extra to have 95% nitrogen.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by The_Nuke

Way ahead of you, I've already got a periodic table shower curtain: I probably just need to take more showers...

Sorry for the snarky reply, I apologize. Shoes I bought for my daughter a while back:

 

[PimTac]

Does she really wear those shoes around or just gave you that half hearted "gee thanks Dad" reply and put them in the closet. Reminds me of the hand knitted caps I used to get from an aunt.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by PimTac

Does she really wear those shoes around or just gave you that half hearted "gee thanks Dad" reply and put them in the closet. Reminds me of the hand knitted caps I used to get from an aunt.

Nah she wore them out, they are long gone now.