Which tire store did the alignment to the Dodge truck?
got an alignment today. take a look
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I went to Sears once to get an alignment. The guy trying to sell me an alignment didn't know what camber or castor was ...
I used to get the Taurus aligned at my college. They always did an excellent job getting it right. Except for the one time they lost my car ... but that's a different story.
The Cherokee I align myself quite frequently. Bringing them offroad is not good for alignments! Focus is about due for an alignment ... that scares me.
I used to get the Taurus aligned at my college. They always did an excellent job getting it right. Except for the one time they lost my car ... but that's a different story.
The Cherokee I align myself quite frequently. Bringing them offroad is not good for alignments! Focus is about due for an alignment ... that scares me.
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
what's an accentric kit?
Guessing an aftermarket camber kit that will let them put even less effort into this
Does the camber kit (cam bolts??) give more adjustment or just easier adjustment?
At one time I wondered if they were just a huge profit margin for a shop, as they charge an arm and leg for them vs actual cost. But in another case of some front end work on my daughter's Escort, my mechanic asked me to buy some cam bolts just in case he needed them (he didn't).
So, I am looking for some schooling on these cam bolts that are offered aftermarket.
Thanks!
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
what's an accentric kit?
Guessing an aftermarket camber kit that will let them put even less effort into this
Does the camber kit (cam bolts??) give more adjustment or just easier adjustment?
At one time I wondered if they were just a huge profit margin for a shop, as they charge an arm and leg for them vs actual cost. But in another case of some front end work on my daughter's Escort, my mechanic asked me to buy some cam bolts just in case he needed them (he didn't).
So, I am looking for some schooling on these cam bolts that are offered aftermarket.
Thanks!
The cam bolts are good in some examples like a macpherson strut to steering knuckle. The alternative is grinding out holes bigger then hoping the 200 ft lbs of the bolt pinching the mess together will keep it in alignment.
The downside of cam bolts is they go places that "can't be aligned" so you have to nag the tech later on that you do in fact have a cam bolt and please have at it.
The downside of cam bolts is they go places that "can't be aligned" so you have to nag the tech later on that you do in fact have a cam bolt and please have at it.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
We all hated lifetime alignments at Sears because the technician did not get paid to do them. They had stopped offering it long enough ago that the only vehicles left were older ones that were a pain in the rear to align.
We would charge people for them when they showed the coupon when they picked the car up instead of when they dropped it off. They would be literally taking money from the technician when they did that.
Do you suspect from the customer's point of view that they got better service by pretending to be paying full price?
It's not the customer's fault sears pays techs poorly or not at all for "warranty service"-- I use scare quotes on purpose.
We all hated lifetime alignments at Sears because the technician did not get paid to do them. They had stopped offering it long enough ago that the only vehicles left were older ones that were a pain in the rear to align.
We would charge people for them when they showed the coupon when they picked the car up instead of when they dropped it off. They would be literally taking money from the technician when they did that.
Do you suspect from the customer's point of view that they got better service by pretending to be paying full price?
It's not the customer's fault sears pays techs poorly or not at all for "warranty service"-- I use scare quotes on purpose.
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
what's an accentric kit?
Guessing an aftermarket camber kit that will let them put even less effort into this
Does the camber kit (cam bolts??) give more adjustment or just easier adjustment?
At one time I wondered if they were just a huge profit margin for a shop, as they charge an arm and leg for them vs actual cost. But in another case of some front end work on my daughter's Escort, my mechanic asked me to buy some cam bolts just in case he needed them (he didn't).
So, I am looking for some schooling on these cam bolts that are offered aftermarket.
Thanks!
It probably varies by application, but normally different bolts will give a different range of adjustment. So, if you can't get in spec with the factory bolts you swap to the other set.
So, in some cases it's not that it makes it an easier adjustment, it just allows for some extra adjustment to get the vehicle in spec.
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
what's an accentric kit?
Guessing an aftermarket camber kit that will let them put even less effort into this
Does the camber kit (cam bolts??) give more adjustment or just easier adjustment?
At one time I wondered if they were just a huge profit margin for a shop, as they charge an arm and leg for them vs actual cost. But in another case of some front end work on my daughter's Escort, my mechanic asked me to buy some cam bolts just in case he needed them (he didn't).
So, I am looking for some schooling on these cam bolts that are offered aftermarket.
Thanks!
It probably varies by application, but normally different bolts will give a different range of adjustment. So, if you can't get in spec with the factory bolts you swap to the other set.
So, in some cases it's not that it makes it an easier adjustment, it just allows for some extra adjustment to get the vehicle in spec.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
We all hated lifetime alignments at Sears because the technician did not get paid to do them. They had stopped offering it long enough ago that the only vehicles left were older ones that were a pain in the rear to align.
We would charge people for them when they showed the coupon when they picked the car up instead of when they dropped it off. They would be literally taking money from the technician when they did that.
Do you suspect from the customer's point of view that they got better service by pretending to be paying full price?
It's not the customer's fault sears pays techs poorly or not at all for "warranty service"-- I use scare quotes on purpose.
No we just thought we were getting paid for the work we were doing. We had a customer who came in maybe once a month for their "lifetime alignment" and would "happen to forget" their lifetime card. It got to the point that the techs would see the car and let it sit for hours until there was literally nothing else to do.
That same customer, the car would never align right because it was an old Mercedes that required a spreader bar and Sears refused to buy us one. Management told us that tools like that were not needed and we would have to figure out a way around it. Very bad environment to work in on the technician side.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
We all hated lifetime alignments at Sears because the technician did not get paid to do them. They had stopped offering it long enough ago that the only vehicles left were older ones that were a pain in the rear to align.
We would charge people for them when they showed the coupon when they picked the car up instead of when they dropped it off. They would be literally taking money from the technician when they did that.
Do you suspect from the customer's point of view that they got better service by pretending to be paying full price?
It's not the customer's fault sears pays techs poorly or not at all for "warranty service"-- I use scare quotes on purpose.
No we just thought we were getting paid for the work we were doing. We had a customer who came in maybe once a month for their "lifetime alignment" and would "happen to forget" their lifetime card. It got to the point that the techs would see the car and let it sit for hours until there was literally nothing else to do.
That same customer, the car would never align right because it was an old Mercedes that required a spreader bar and Sears refused to buy us one. Management told us that tools like that were not needed and we would have to figure out a way around it. Very bad environment to work in on the technician side.
You need to take your truck to different shops in the chain you bought your "lifetime" alignment from until you find an alignment tech with the know how, patience, experience and integrity to do a good job. You may never find one. You may need to try dealerships or independent shops.
I assume it is the Dodge in your signature, but us BITOGers might be of a little more help if you could tell us if it is a 4x4 or 4x2 and if it is a 2500 or 3500.
According to my Hunter manual if your truck is a 4x4 only caster is adjustable, if it doesn't have eccentric bolts already for this adjustment, it may be helpful to purchase them.
If it is a 4x2 it would appear both camber and caster can be adjusted via slots on the top of the upper control arm. No eccentrics exist for these sliders. If they were on the sides of the control arms like older F-150s, an aftermarket eccentric exists, but no such luck on a 2007 Ram. The Hunter "helper" program for adjusting the sliders is extremely unhelpful, if not worthless. The more you follow its "helpful" instructions, the worse the alignment gets, until the truck gets completely out of whack like yours.
Your alignment report shows an "after" cross caster of -1.80°, absolutely positively terrible. My manual shows it should be 0.0° with a tolerance of +/- 0.50°. In my shop we try to aim for a cross caster tolerance of +/- 0.20°.
What the tech said about letting the tires "wear in" is wrong. They will wear in crooked with that alignment and never be right again.
I assume it is the Dodge in your signature, but us BITOGers might be of a little more help if you could tell us if it is a 4x4 or 4x2 and if it is a 2500 or 3500.
According to my Hunter manual if your truck is a 4x4 only caster is adjustable, if it doesn't have eccentric bolts already for this adjustment, it may be helpful to purchase them.
If it is a 4x2 it would appear both camber and caster can be adjusted via slots on the top of the upper control arm. No eccentrics exist for these sliders. If they were on the sides of the control arms like older F-150s, an aftermarket eccentric exists, but no such luck on a 2007 Ram. The Hunter "helper" program for adjusting the sliders is extremely unhelpful, if not worthless. The more you follow its "helpful" instructions, the worse the alignment gets, until the truck gets completely out of whack like yours.
Your alignment report shows an "after" cross caster of -1.80°, absolutely positively terrible. My manual shows it should be 0.0° with a tolerance of +/- 0.50°. In my shop we try to aim for a cross caster tolerance of +/- 0.20°.
What the tech said about letting the tires "wear in" is wrong. They will wear in crooked with that alignment and never be right again.
Originally Posted By: salv
Truck alignments suck, and techs hate to do them. I hammer mine to make sure they finish a full alignment. A toe adjust is not enough.
On many vehicles (your Cherokee included), that is the only thing they CAN do! This includes the OP's truck if it's a 4x4.
Truck alignments suck, and techs hate to do them. I hammer mine to make sure they finish a full alignment. A toe adjust is not enough.
On many vehicles (your Cherokee included), that is the only thing they CAN do! This includes the OP's truck if it's a 4x4.
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I don't know. I'm bringing it back tomorrow if I can wake up early enough. I'm going to tell them to set the caster at around 3.5 and the toe at 10 on both sides. That should be in the middle then right? For whatever reason this truck has always wornout the outer portion of the tires first. Probably cause they always set the tires toed in. We have 5 vehicles and mine is the only one that has ever needed alignments. It's a shame cause this truck is a pavement truck only. What exactly causes it to get out of alignment anyways? Do the bolts holding everything in place get knocked around causing it to get out of whack?
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Nope. rear wheel drive.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
I don't know. I'm bringing it back tomorrow if I can wake up early enough. I'm going to tell them to set the caster at around 3.5 and the toe at 10 on both sides. That should be in the middle then right? For whatever reason this truck has always wornout the outer portion of the tires first. Probably cause they always set the tires toed in. We have 5 vehicles and mine is the only one that has ever needed alignments. It's a shame cause this truck is a pavement truck only. What exactly causes it to get out of alignment anyways? Do the bolts holding everything in place get knocked around causing it to get out of whack?
Ask for the factory alignment specs. Then just let them set the alignment rather than telling them where you want it. Maybe they always set the tires toed in because that's what it calls for. You said you hit a curb and then the steering wheel was off. Did you bend anything? If the steering wheel was crooked but the truck still drove somewhat straight then I would guess that something is jacked. You might need the eccentric kit because something is bent and the adjustment range has changed. Also remember that both sides won't be exactly the same to compensate for road crown.
Just about anything can cause the alignment to get out of spec. Parts moving, parts wearing, potholes, CURBS, tire wear, worn suspension parts. So under even normal driving, nothing severe, the alignment will eventually be out of spec for one reason or another.
I don't know. I'm bringing it back tomorrow if I can wake up early enough. I'm going to tell them to set the caster at around 3.5 and the toe at 10 on both sides. That should be in the middle then right? For whatever reason this truck has always wornout the outer portion of the tires first. Probably cause they always set the tires toed in. We have 5 vehicles and mine is the only one that has ever needed alignments. It's a shame cause this truck is a pavement truck only. What exactly causes it to get out of alignment anyways? Do the bolts holding everything in place get knocked around causing it to get out of whack?
Ask for the factory alignment specs. Then just let them set the alignment rather than telling them where you want it. Maybe they always set the tires toed in because that's what it calls for. You said you hit a curb and then the steering wheel was off. Did you bend anything? If the steering wheel was crooked but the truck still drove somewhat straight then I would guess that something is jacked. You might need the eccentric kit because something is bent and the adjustment range has changed. Also remember that both sides won't be exactly the same to compensate for road crown.
Just about anything can cause the alignment to get out of spec. Parts moving, parts wearing, potholes, CURBS, tire wear, worn suspension parts. So under even normal driving, nothing severe, the alignment will eventually be out of spec for one reason or another.
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This is a 2wd truck. do they need the caster bolts? There sayimg they are $125 dollars
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ok so I pretty much just wasted more time. They wouldn't even touch the caster cause it was at maximum adjustment and it needs a caster kit. It still pulls to the left and now the steering wheel is crooked. The toe was out again after just 200 miles. It was at 0.27 on the left side and 0.22 on the right side and the caster was the same at 5.4. They said the ball joints were tight. I don't know what to do. They were baffled as to why the toe was out again. Why spend the money on a caster kit if the toe doesn't even stay in spec? Who knew running up a curb at 2mph would screw so much stuff up. It's a truck not a corvette. Basically it's always going to pull to the left until it gets the caster kit. I [censored] at them and asked why they wanted me to come back in a few days.
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Code:
Before:
left front Right front
Camber:-0.4 -0.6 -0.5-0.5
Caster:3.9 3.3 2.9-4.4
Toe:0.67 0.65 0.15-0.05
After:
left front right front
camber:0.1 0.3 -0.5-0.5
caster:3.3 5.1 2.9-4.4
toe: 0.14 0.15 0.15-0.05
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
ok so I pretty much just wasted more time. They wouldn't even touch the caster cause it was at maximum adjustment and it needs a caster kit.
That would be the time to whip out your printout and call cowpie on them. A good look at the before numbers shows that the camber and caster were almost good and a whole lot better than after. It really looks like they just don't know what they're doing.
Perhaps you could get the alignment done elsewhere and then let these guys reimburse you?
Before:
left front Right front
Camber:-0.4 -0.6 -0.5-0.5
Caster:3.9 3.3 2.9-4.4
Toe:0.67 0.65 0.15-0.05
After:
left front right front
camber:0.1 0.3 -0.5-0.5
caster:3.3 5.1 2.9-4.4
toe: 0.14 0.15 0.15-0.05
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
ok so I pretty much just wasted more time. They wouldn't even touch the caster cause it was at maximum adjustment and it needs a caster kit.
That would be the time to whip out your printout and call cowpie on them. A good look at the before numbers shows that the camber and caster were almost good and a whole lot better than after. It really looks like they just don't know what they're doing.
Perhaps you could get the alignment done elsewhere and then let these guys reimburse you?
Jumping back in here. You honestly need to just find another place. I went to a chain shop for an alignment in my old car after replacing the shocks myself. Wheel was crooked, and said I needed the camber bolts. Talked to my local discount tire and they reco'd a shop who fixed the alignment perfectly. It involved adjusting the engine cradle somehow, but it worked and this shop was legit.
I just googled 'Houston Alignment Forum' to see what other forums are recommending. I would read the BMW, Vette, and other ones since they will be the pickiest owners. good luck
I just googled 'Houston Alignment Forum' to see what other forums are recommending. I would read the BMW, Vette, and other ones since they will be the pickiest owners. good luck
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