The new dexos standard calls for a low speed pre-ignition test. Here's info on how lubricants effect that.
https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
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Good Info on Lubricant and Low Speed Pre-Ignition
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The article states if oil makes its way into the combustion chamber, the oil can preignite, causing LSPI.
I know Mobil 1 is a low calcium oil. Any others out there?
I know Mobil 1 is a low calcium oil. Any others out there?
According to this patent, calcium sulphonate is a combustion catalyst which can be used to reduce soot in diesel. Maybe it's this that's contributing to LSPI.
https://www.google.com/patents/EP2287277A1?cl=en
https://www.google.com/patents/EP2287277A1?cl=en
My wife's Kia Rio pinged so bad it set off a knock sensor when she was driving on a hot day on the highway. Switched from 87 octane to super which helped a lot but the thing still pinged between 1800-2000rpm. Switched from M1 5w-20 to 5w30 and changed spark plugs from OEM iridium to champion copper and the problem is gone.
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Originally Posted By: Danno
The article states if oil makes its way into the combustion chamber, the oil can preignite, causing LSPI.
I know Mobil 1 is a low calcium oil. Any others out there?
Not M1 0w40.
LSPI is most common on Turbo Direct Injection applications where the turbo is used in conjunction with a low displacement vehicle. Many on here (innocently) recommend M1 0w40 for any and everything turbo not realizing this caveat. Also, in many of these studies, 'High' Moly content also offsets the ill effects of the Ca.
http://papers.sae.org/2014-32-0092/
Posted by member, buster some time back:
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/may-2015/investigating-low-speed-pre-ignition
The article states if oil makes its way into the combustion chamber, the oil can preignite, causing LSPI.
I know Mobil 1 is a low calcium oil. Any others out there?
Not M1 0w40.
LSPI is most common on Turbo Direct Injection applications where the turbo is used in conjunction with a low displacement vehicle. Many on here (innocently) recommend M1 0w40 for any and everything turbo not realizing this caveat. Also, in many of these studies, 'High' Moly content also offsets the ill effects of the Ca.
http://papers.sae.org/2014-32-0092/
Posted by member, buster some time back:
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/may-2015/investigating-low-speed-pre-ignition
Going back to Barium detergent oils. Any known brand using it already?
Quote:
Aside from the detergent system, there are many other additive and lubricant compositions that can influence LSPI. Molybdenum compounds, for example, not only provide frictional benefits, but also have been shown to decrease LSPI when used at high levels. Base oils also affect LSPI events. Both the quality of the base stock (i.e. Group II versus Group III) and the viscosity can have secondary effects on LSPI. The effect on LSPI from these other lubricant aspects are not as significant as the detergent system, but can shift the LSPI frequency in oils that are more prone to LSPI.
Quote:
It is important to ensure that any new engine oil specifications be based on performance (such as in the newly available engine tests) rather than on chemical limits. Although lowering calcium was one of the initial levers identified for reducing LSPI, it is not the only lever, and calcium detergents have benefits in other performance areas.
Aside from the detergent system, there are many other additive and lubricant compositions that can influence LSPI. Molybdenum compounds, for example, not only provide frictional benefits, but also have been shown to decrease LSPI when used at high levels. Base oils also affect LSPI events. Both the quality of the base stock (i.e. Group II versus Group III) and the viscosity can have secondary effects on LSPI. The effect on LSPI from these other lubricant aspects are not as significant as the detergent system, but can shift the LSPI frequency in oils that are more prone to LSPI.
Quote:
It is important to ensure that any new engine oil specifications be based on performance (such as in the newly available engine tests) rather than on chemical limits. Although lowering calcium was one of the initial levers identified for reducing LSPI, it is not the only lever, and calcium detergents have benefits in other performance areas.
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Going back to Barium detergent oils. Any known brand using it already?
Barium is an absolute no-no as far as the additive industry is concerned. Far too many issues (and potential liabilities) around tox & pox.
Also, given that barium is heavier than both calcium & magnesium, and probably has more transition states, it might well be even more catalytically active than calcium and promote LSPI rather than curing it! I'm surprised that no-one's looked at sodium sulphonate as that might have the least effect on LSPI.
Going back to Barium detergent oils. Any known brand using it already?
Barium is an absolute no-no as far as the additive industry is concerned. Far too many issues (and potential liabilities) around tox & pox.
Also, given that barium is heavier than both calcium & magnesium, and probably has more transition states, it might well be even more catalytically active than calcium and promote LSPI rather than curing it! I'm surprised that no-one's looked at sodium sulphonate as that might have the least effect on LSPI.
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
According to this patent, calcium sulphonate is a combustion catalyst which can be used to reduce soot in diesel. Maybe it's this that's contributing to LSPI.
https://www.google.com/patents/EP2287277A1?cl=en
That's what I was thinking about a year ago, and why I go with calcium oils in my diesel.
According to this patent, calcium sulphonate is a combustion catalyst which can be used to reduce soot in diesel. Maybe it's this that's contributing to LSPI.
https://www.google.com/patents/EP2287277A1?cl=en
That's what I was thinking about a year ago, and why I go with calcium oils in my diesel.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
You've noticed it too ?
We've got a crossroads a few houses away, with a give way sign and a steep start.
Used to be the junkers that knocked across the intersection...now it's pretty common.
Absolutely.
I don't think its necessarily the fault of the cars, either. My sneaking suspicion is that there is "something" in our fuels now that we have NOT been informed about. I've not really noticed it before the last year or two.
Even my old vehicle started pinging on 98RON... It did ping lightly and rarely with 95RON, so I switched up. A new IAT reduced the severity significantly. Ping sensors are next.
What was curious is I used 98RON in the country - no hassles. Came to the city and the "98RON" here is either not as advertised or somehow different to an outback (and very hot) town. Noted on a short trip to the city in 2015. Filled up at an (expensive) BP before leaving the city - it was fine from thereon in, including after a fillup with Caltex 98 that (in the city) caused pings.
After relocating to the suburbs this year, the issue has developed further. Some "98RON" is worse than others, it seems.
All-in-all, though, cars that I'd never knew to ping (such as a relatives '05 Camry V6) started all of a sudden. Being on a farm, they used wholesale fuels. So I can't imagine this was to blame.
You've noticed it too ?
We've got a crossroads a few houses away, with a give way sign and a steep start.
Used to be the junkers that knocked across the intersection...now it's pretty common.
Absolutely.
I don't think its necessarily the fault of the cars, either. My sneaking suspicion is that there is "something" in our fuels now that we have NOT been informed about. I've not really noticed it before the last year or two.
Even my old vehicle started pinging on 98RON... It did ping lightly and rarely with 95RON, so I switched up. A new IAT reduced the severity significantly. Ping sensors are next.
What was curious is I used 98RON in the country - no hassles. Came to the city and the "98RON" here is either not as advertised or somehow different to an outback (and very hot) town. Noted on a short trip to the city in 2015. Filled up at an (expensive) BP before leaving the city - it was fine from thereon in, including after a fillup with Caltex 98 that (in the city) caused pings.
After relocating to the suburbs this year, the issue has developed further. Some "98RON" is worse than others, it seems.
All-in-all, though, cars that I'd never knew to ping (such as a relatives '05 Camry V6) started all of a sudden. Being on a farm, they used wholesale fuels. So I can't imagine this was to blame.
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Going back to Barium detergent oils. Any known brand using it already?
Barium is an absolute no-no as far as the additive industry is concerned. Far too many issues (and potential liabilities) around tox & pox.
Also, given that barium is heavier than both calcium & magnesium, and probably has more transition states, it might well be even more catalytically active than calcium and promote LSPI rather than curing it! I'm surprised that no-one's looked at sodium sulphonate as that might have the least effect on LSPI.
I've not seen any papers on sodium, but I've heard anecdotally that it is also not good. Worse than calcium even in some cases.
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Going back to Barium detergent oils. Any known brand using it already?
Barium is an absolute no-no as far as the additive industry is concerned. Far too many issues (and potential liabilities) around tox & pox.
Also, given that barium is heavier than both calcium & magnesium, and probably has more transition states, it might well be even more catalytically active than calcium and promote LSPI rather than curing it! I'm surprised that no-one's looked at sodium sulphonate as that might have the least effect on LSPI.
I've not seen any papers on sodium, but I've heard anecdotally that it is also not good. Worse than calcium even in some cases.
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