Going from V to H or T

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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
It originally came with V-rated tires, which are stupid on such a bland family sedan.


Your Sonata has a governor limited top speed of 134. H-rating is 130, and the next is V at 149. Now you know why it's equipped with those stupid tires.

Also, since you're running Hankook, take a look at the warranty requirements:

"This warranty applies if all following qualification requirements are met:
The tire was purchased after January 1, 2013.
The tire is a size, load rating and speed rating equal to or greater than that recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.
The tires have not become unserviceable due to a condition listed under WHAT IS NOT COVERED."

So, congratulations on voiding your warranty.



I never drive anywhere close to 134 mph. So I stick by my choice to drop the speed rating and say a V-rated tire is not necessary in my situation and in some respects is stupid.

That car is a good fit for a lower-speed-rated tire with better all season characteristics.

As far as the warranty, that doesn't bother me. In my case, I buy tires online and save big money over buying them locally, so warranty is a secondary concern to me in all cases. I know I'm giving up easy warranty service in exchange for big savings.

They worked fine for many miles and I sold the car.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam


Also, since you're running Hankook, take a look at the warranty requirements:

"This warranty applies if all following qualification requirements are met:
The tire was purchased after January 1, 2013.
The tire is a size, load rating and speed rating equal to or greater than that recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.
The tires have not become unserviceable due to a condition listed under WHAT IS NOT COVERED."

So, congratulations on voiding your warranty.



Ugh, I can't add this to my previous post because of the forum's short editing time.

I just remembered that I researched this before buying the tires.

Installing these tires did actually seem in line with the manufacturers recommendations, because those recommendations are limited. I actually don't believe I did void the warranty.

The door placard and the owner's manual for my Sonata never said V-rated replacement tires were required, so you could say it didn't even "recommend" a speed rating. I studied the manual and placard before buying the tires, because I was ready to argue over speed ratings, but it never came up when I had them installed.

The owner's manual is clear that you should be careful about deviating from the OE size, but they never mention replacement tire speed ratings.

If the wording in the tire warranty said the tires had to be the same speed rating as were originally installed on the car, that would be one thing. But the phrase "recommended by the vehicle manufacturer" isn't quite so clear, because there isn't always a recommendation.
 
Originally Posted By: raytseng
I've heard that in general for the same tire, H and V rated tires are those that turned out less perfect than the Z. Whether this is true or not is a different story.

It's somewhat like how they grade CPUs.


The same tires would have the same mold that labeled the speed rating on it instead of engraving it afterward. Most likely it is the internal construction and compound used that makes the difference instead of binning.

I found that T rated tires usually don't go below 60 profile, H rated don't go below 40, and then it is all about traction and width for V and above.

Yes, you can in theory use the lower speed tires if you can find one that fit, however don't be surprised that the traction is much lower and the car drives very different at 60mph even if you don't go above 118mph.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I was wondering how much you compromise the handling of your car going from a V rated tire to a H or even T rated tire. Could it have an effect on the safety of the car handling wise?


There are tens of pages of threads devoted to just this topic....about tires' speed rating, construction, performance and applicability to various cars...
You can start with a search of "tire speed rating" for the 1st 8 pages...more under other similar search words.

....but you need to match the tire considerations to YOUR car, YOUR driving conditions, YOUR driving style, and YOUR expectations/desires....
 
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How much money are you really saving by downgrading?

I just replaced my W rated tires on my car with a set of Cooper Zeon All seasons ( 235/45 17)for $460 OTD and a $60 rebate coming.

The difference between the Cooper and the China Cheapo's was a whopping $100.

The Coopers are: Made in the USA, 40K warranty, and rated really well by consumer reports and many of the internet peanut gallery aka Car Forums...

I'll pay an extra $100 because I think it is a huge leap in quality. Why cut corners on the 1 thing that actually contacts the pavement ?!

Its also something that will be on your car for likely YEARS. Its not like you're using a garbage oil filter for 1 oil change. (Not that there is much excuse for that either)

Keep in mind, cheap tires also generally have poor rolling resistance ratings (and braking). This will cost you in fuel economy.

Its an item that will be on your car for a long time and should be respected as such.
 
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are you sure the zeon's are made in usa?

I am pretty sure the zeon rs3-a is one of their few tires that are made in china.
 
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Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Yes apparently some say made in China? Disappointing.

Goodyear - Only other made in USA option I suppose


you should know you said you just bought some.. the CoO will be on the side of the tire (country of origin)

For example my blizzack ws-80's say JP on the sidewall (japan)
 
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Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Yes apparently some say made in China? Disappointing.

Goodyear - Only other made in USA option I suppose


My Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 2 are made in Germany.

Krzys
 
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Originally Posted By: stephen9666
The owner's manual is clear that you should be careful about deviating from the OE size, but they never mention replacement tire speed ratings.


It is indeed frustrating when there is no speed rating on the placard. Tire Rack, when asked for tires for a 2007 Sonata GLS with the 215/60R16 size, offers H-rated tires and above. I'm not sure from where they get the H speed rating. It appears to be neither the OEM tire (a V-rated tire apparently) or on the placard (which is apparently devoid of any speed rating).
 
215/55-17 94V Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max tires on that Malibu? The reason you're stuck with V rated tires on the 'Bu is because the Cruze Eco got that exact tire back in 2011 after some GM engineers found out that it could exceed 130 mph. The tire was originally a H rated tire, and some of the early Cruze Eco's shipped with H rated tires. Since the 'Bu can also exceed 130 mph, the bean-counters most likely looked at the parts bin, saw this tire, and slapped it on. It's a decent-enough tire for a daily driver.
 
interesting, when we bought our Camry a few months ago I did not pay attention to the tires speed rating. After reading this I looked and they are H rated Primewells.....
After looking in the manual they are to be v rated. Same load rating however. So I guess next tire change going back to the V rated ones.
 
Camry V6s used to specify an H and one rim size up. , the fours did not. Blockhead at a "Klub Store" could not get his head around the fact that I had the bigger tires and wheels from a 6 on a 4 cyl Camry, said he would sell me only H rated tires. Pointing out that the car wouldn't go any faster with 205 65 15s than it did with the 195 70 14s that it came with was no help. I think the tire department mamager was promoted from lady's cosmetics or some such. Usually, H rated tires have a longer tread wear rating than the Vs. I wouldn't put T rated on the Camry 6 but for any sane driver, H is quite enough unless you live where there are no speed limits. Vs survive speeds and have a sticky tread, but don't last as long. The holy grail of tire company research is a tread compound which sticks like a racing tire but lasts like a "high miler".
 
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Camry V6s used to specify an H and one rim size up. , the fours did not. Blockhead at a "Klub Store" could not get his head around the fact that I had the bigger tires and wheels from a 6 on a 4 cyl Camry, said he would sell me only H rated tires. Pointing out that the car wouldn't go any faster with 205 65 15s than it did with the 195 70 14s that it came with was no help.


What speed rating were you trying to buy? Usually they are willing to sell you a higher rating!

The fours did have H-tires at some point though in the 90s. However, an H-rated 195/70-14 basically doesn't exist anymore, but there is a V-rated Vredestein Sprint Classic in this size, well over $200 *each* and special-order-only.

Funny thing is that the V6 Camry specified H-tires, but the ES300 requires a V-rating. The V6's top speed does in fact exceed 130 mph, more like 137-138 to be exact.
 
If its factory equipped with V rating, good luck finding someone who'll sell you anything less then that.
That being said, I wouldn't see an issue of stepping down to a H. Just good luck trying.
 
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
How much money are you really saving by downgrading?

I just replaced my W rated tires on my car with a set of Cooper Zeon All seasons ( 235/45 17)for $460 OTD and a $60 rebate coming.

The difference between the Cooper and the China Cheapo's was a whopping $100.

The Coopers are: Made in the USA, 40K warranty, and rated really well by consumer reports and many of the internet peanut gallery aka Car Forums...

I'll pay an extra $100 because I think it is a huge leap in quality. Why cut corners on the 1 thing that actually contacts the pavement ?!

Its also something that will be on your car for likely YEARS. Its not like you're using a garbage oil filter for 1 oil change. (Not that there is much excuse for that either)

Keep in mind, cheap tires also generally have poor rolling resistance ratings (and braking). This will cost you in fuel economy.

Its an item that will be on your car for a long time and should be respected as such.



It also depends on what you consider a "downgrade". I have an '07 Sonata that came with 215/60/16 Michelin V rated tires. The treadwear was not great on them. They saw other tires when worn (Nokian WRG2) as they were at 6/32" from a couple winters of snow use on same vehicle.

The latest for the Sonata was/is Michelin Primacy MXV4 215/55/17 H rated (on Elantra rims). Why? The same size V-rated was $25 more per tire and had 10/32" vs. the H rated with 12/32". IMO I don't consider the same Michelin tire to be much of a downgrade from it's higher speed rated twin. I did have to sign the paper at Costco that said I knew I was putting a lesser speed rating tire on so I couldn't hold them liable and sue them for doing that (though that never happened for the snows)

Winter consists of 215-60-16 Continental ExtremeWinterContact in a T (XL) rated. I think I had the car at 90mph a couple times. Daily drive is 70-75mph in light traffic conditions.

If your saving based on going to some questionable quality no name house brand maybe not a great idea. If your saving after doing a lot of research and getting quality products, highly recommended.

If your not getting the better new tires as you can't afford it, I'd much rather see you on new no names with good tread than bald name brand as your probably skipping other maintenance also and jeopardizing those around you anyway.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: raytseng
I've heard that in general for the same tire, H and V rated tires are those that turned out less perfect than the Z. Whether this is true or not is a different story.

Definitely not true, as Hokie already noted. A tire must use a different construction in order to meet the higher speed rating requirements. Besides, how would you imagine this work? They don't test every tire they make for speed rating compliance. And even if they did, how would they then note the speed rating on the sidewall? With a Sharpie marker?


While I do agree with you for the most part especially with different models; I don't think your comments really prove this to always true.

Here's a counter example:

Take a look at this picture of a michelin I picked out that comes in V or H.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/BigPic.jsp?sidewall=Blackwall&tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Premier+A%2FS&partnum=055VR6PREAS&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes


The tire specs for weight and wear and load and everything else is exactly the same for V and H. They don't advertise V has extra has any extra features over the H.

The 95V is "stamped" in at one of the final step, it's clearly not intrinsically molded the same way as the rest of main markings, and not even the same as the size marking.
Explain why they do this if not for the potential reason I laid out? It goes against the assumptions you've laid out that ALL tires are designed and marked with it's speed rating from the very beginning, versus my argument that they decide midway or later on the process depending on how the tire is shaping up.


For your other point that they'd have to destroy the tires to find out.
Tires aren't "tested" with a destructive or even a wear test. Otherwise even your Z-rated tires should be coming out worn and not shiny new. They use lasers and imaging, as well as spinning and balancing all throughout the process.
Say if it's offbalance by less than few grams or has runout
But you don't need to wear the tire destructively to determine it's rating.

Tires are also made in more than 1 step. So even if I give you the benefit of the doubt on a stamped tire, you can still perform the grading of the quality of the carcasses before laying down the final outermost rubber layer with your stamp.

So I still claim that for "some" tires that are exactly identical and come in a few speed ratings, the higher rated tires are just sorted from differences in manufacturing yield quality; and there are no intrinsic design differences. I'll give you not always the case; but I think based on picture above, you'd have to say sometimes it's true too.
 
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Originally Posted By: needsducktape

I just replaced my W rated tires on my car with a set of Cooper Zeon All seasons ( 235/45 17)for $460 OTD and a $60 rebate coming.



Cooper Zeon RS3-A
 
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