GM: Without LG Chem, we couldn't build Bolt EV

[HTSS_TR]

Quote:
LG Chem's new components can be found almost everywhere in the Bolt. They include the battery pack and the battery heater, a new motor, the power inverter module, the electric climate control system compressor, the on-board charger, high-power distribution module, the accessory power module, and power line communication module. Oh, and then there are LG Chem's advanced display technologies like the new instrument cluster and a new infotainment cluster. LG Chem also supplies parts for the 4G LTE OnStar system, just like it does in other new Chevys. If that all sounds like a lot of components to you, you're right. Mark Reuss, GM executive vice president of global product development, purchasing and supply chain, said that without the expanded relationship with LG Chem, GM would not be able to bring the Bolt to market.


http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/21/gm-without-lg-chem-we-couldnt-build-bolt-ev/

Is GM that bad ? They have many thousands engineers but could not design these major components for an EV ?

 

[dishdude]

Without Foxconn, Apple couldn't build iPhone. Without Panasonic, Tesla couldn't build Model S. Without Panasonic, Toyota couldn't build Prius.

I am sure you aren't naive enough to think any company that puts it's name on a product produces every part that goes into building that product.

 

[HTSS_TR]

No car company makes every parts themselves, but major components are almost always design/engineer in house.

Most car companies have many suppliers, even 2-3 suppliers for same part, they don't depend on 1 supplier for so many components like GM on LG Chem for Bolt.

 

[UrS4]

Here in Europe many car manufactures mostly don't make their transmissions them selves. In VW, Audi, BMW, PSA you'll often see that the transmission is made by somebody else eg. ZF, Getrag, Aisin Warner or Valeo.

Mercedes is known for making their own transmission. But maybe it's fading away since Mercedes already sell cars with double clutch transmission, and I don't think they have made their own version them selves. It's cheaper and more convenient to buy one from ZF.

Still though, if a car manufacturer want to make its own transmission, they might have to have the internal components made from someone else that is specialized in making very high quality gears.

An other example:
All car manufacturers buy all their bearings from a bearing manufacturer. Eg. SKF, Timken, F.A.G., NTN and so on....

 

[Silverado12]

^^^I had a Mercedes trans in my Dodge Challenger. Good transmission.

 

[zach1900]

I'd rather have LG developing the battery than GM. Wouldn't you? A lot cheaper for GM and they can conce on making an ignition switch that doesn't kill you.

 

[Falken]

The next generation of cars is squarely in the hands of fuel cell and battery companies and we are ALL waiting on their breakthrough advances.

So I have to agree... all the electrical motor technology has peaked many years ago, only tweaks exist on the rest of the car.

So, here's to the battery companies!

 

[Chris Meutsch]

Frankly this is why some auto manufacturers are "reliable" and others aren't. It's all about the quality of the parts, and then the detail to assembly in the car factory.

 

[A_Harman]

Here's another take on it.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/busines...lt-ev/74263840/

All auto companies depend on their suppliers to get their cars to market. Suppliers are continually developing products within their portfolios and present them to OEM's to see if there is interest. If the OEM sees potential value in a widget, they will work with the supplier to adapt it into their cars. The days of vertical integration in the auto industry are past. GM and Ford were the most vertically integrated, but they spun off their internal suppliers about 20 years ago. Engineers that used to work for OEM's go to work for suppliers, and vice versa.

 

[bullwinkle]

Around here GM spun off their suppliers, & then all the plants closed (Delphi & Delco Moraine in Dayton OH for instance), not sure where that production went? Mexico?

 

[hattaresguy]

You have to understand how manufacturing works. A manufacture, be it GM or Boeing doesn't build their entire product in house, they outsource various parts or systems to suppliers.


Imagine the carnage in the auto industry if say Bosch evaporated tomorrow? Lots of manufactures would be left with stopped assembly lines.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/21/gm-without-lg-chem-we-couldnt-build-bolt-ev/

Is GM that bad ? They have many thousands engineers but could not design these major components for an EV ?


Consider other companies have done 100x more battery volume in electronics than in automotive, GM is going to be WAY WAY BEHIND if it is going to build the battery themselves, as well as having to pay license fees for patents from those companies anyways.

So, why not just buy existing mature battery technologies from 3rd party? It is much wiser to save the R&D and put it somewhere more valuable, or buy better materials for the final products (interior space), or reduce the price.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/21/gm-without-lg-chem-we-couldnt-build-bolt-ev/

Is GM that bad ? They have many thousands engineers but could not design these major components for an EV ?


Consider other companies have done 100x more battery volume in electronics than in automotive, GM is going to be WAY WAY BEHIND if it is going to build the battery themselves, as well as having to pay license fees for patents from those companies anyways.

So, why not just buy existing mature battery technologies from 3rd party? It is much wiser to save the R&D and put it somewhere more valuable, or buy better materials for the final products (interior space), or reduce the price.


There is a saying in the auto industry:

"There are three kinds of liars: Liars, [censored] Liars, and Battery Engineers."

"Sure, this battery will give your car 300 miles range at 75 mph and will still have 95% capacity after 500 fast recharges on Tesla's Supercharger system." Rates right up there with "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

Existing mature battery technologies were tried 40 years ago, and couldn't survive the deep discharge cycles and gave pathetic range. Lead-acid, Nickel metal hydride, and other chemistries were all evaluated, and the current favorite is lithium ion. The theoretical maximum energy storage density of Li-ion is 380 W*hr/kg, and current production batteries are about half that. Like every technology that has to work in the real world, theoretical maximums are never reached.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Car companies don't make all parts they need, they have literally hundreds(if not thousands) suppliers for many thousands different parts. They may have more than 1 supplier for critical parts so that if one didn't make that part to their quality on schedule the other supplier(s) may step up.

In this case GM depends on LG Chemical for so many critical parts, such that if LG Chemical back out for any reason GM will hold the bag.

No car company should depend on 1 supplier for that many parts.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Its much more than about "outsourcing" practices.
Remember that good battery technology depends on breakthroughs and intellectual property (IP), patents.
GM can't just order a group of chemists to get a breakthrough. So GM rightly gets stuff from a company who happens to have it.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Car companies don't make all parts they need, they have literally hundreds(if not thousands) suppliers for many thousands different parts. They may have more than 1 supplier for critical parts so that if one didn't make that part to their quality on schedule the other supplier(s) may step up.

In this case GM depends on LG Chemical for so many critical parts, such that if LG Chemical back out for any reason GM will hold the bag.

No car company should depend on 1 supplier for that many parts.


Sometimes it is impossible to source a part from more than one supplier. Like it is not possible to buy an Intel CPU from anyone else. Yes you can buy AMD but your customers will know if you swap an Intel board/CPU for AMD, so that's not the same thing.

Sometimes the sole supplier has more than 1 manufacturing site, so if one goes down the others can take over.

 

[JHZR2]

GM HAD a great battery team. I worked with a bunch of them out of Anderson Indiana for a while. They were a completely different and unrelated company.

Automakers do indeed outsource. For building advanced batteries with higher voltages and a ton of energy, there are far more nuances than most on here would ever imagine.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Automakers do indeed outsource. For building advanced batteries with higher voltages and a ton of energy, there are far more nuances than most on here would ever imagine.

That was the point I was trying to make: Innovation is not a standard commodity. Too many times a company thinks they can get a capability simply by hiring some engineers. Its like asking a group to produce 1 meaningful patent per day and then being puzzled when breakthroughs might not happen.