Thanks for posting the information. For the viscosity modifiers, I think their description has been misunderstood. It is high-level shear stable vs mid-level shear stable, as in high concentration shear stable vs mid-concentration shear stable.
GM turbocharger test: No correlation for deposits with TEOST 33C or moly
- Thread starter Gokhan
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Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by crainholio
This is a real conundrum...turbos dislike moly, but timing chains like moly.
If timing chains are designed and manufactured to quality not cost it does not matter. I'm not sure turbos dislike molybdenum rather than moly does not positively affect turbos.
I second that, both aspects.
Originally Posted by crainholio
This is a real conundrum...turbos dislike moly, but timing chains like moly.
If timing chains are designed and manufactured to quality not cost it does not matter. I'm not sure turbos dislike molybdenum rather than moly does not positively affect turbos.
I second that, both aspects.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
What did I take away from this article? With regards to turbocharging one should use an oil which has a narrower viscosity spread in order to limit VII. In my case it would be a 5w30 and avoid the 0w40.
Yes. I would second that.
Of course, a while back, it didn't stop a certain someone asserting quite definitively (and I quote)...
"Ignore those threads about 10W-30 being better than 5W-30. That's old wives' tale and there is no such thing."
Was it just me that heard a flip followed by a resounding flop??
What did I take away from this article? With regards to turbocharging one should use an oil which has a narrower viscosity spread in order to limit VII. In my case it would be a 5w30 and avoid the 0w40.
Yes. I would second that.
Of course, a while back, it didn't stop a certain someone asserting quite definitively (and I quote)...
"Ignore those threads about 10W-30 being better than 5W-30. That's old wives' tale and there is no such thing."
Was it just me that heard a flip followed by a resounding flop??
I wish that they would have also included the effects of fuel dilution of the oil in these tests, and just how much THAT factor effects/affects turbo bearing/shaft life/longevity.
(So that I can justify the OCD over-frequent OCIs I've done on this car so far, and the bitog flak I am hearing about that in another thread.
)
(So that I can justify the OCD over-frequent OCIs I've done on this car so far, and the bitog flak I am hearing about that in another thread.
Originally Posted by dailydriver
I wish that they would have also included the effects of fuel dilution of the oil in these tests, and just how much THAT factor effects/affects turbo bearing/shaft life/longevity.
That is a legitimate concern.....
Though I would argue that as long as the oil flow rate and pressure were high enough,
I don't think it would make a difference until fuel dilution becomes SUBSTANTIAL.
CASE IN POINT: two different turbocharged diesel engines (DT-436 International and 4BT3.9 Cummins) that I worked on
- *both* experienced EXTREME fuel dilution (greater than 50%!) due to a failed injection pump seal.
Neither one experienced a turbo failure.
Each one had been running at rated load for HOURS before the problem was caught.
I wish that they would have also included the effects of fuel dilution of the oil in these tests, and just how much THAT factor effects/affects turbo bearing/shaft life/longevity.
That is a legitimate concern.....
Though I would argue that as long as the oil flow rate and pressure were high enough,
I don't think it would make a difference until fuel dilution becomes SUBSTANTIAL.
CASE IN POINT: two different turbocharged diesel engines (DT-436 International and 4BT3.9 Cummins) that I worked on
- *both* experienced EXTREME fuel dilution (greater than 50%!) due to a failed injection pump seal.
Neither one experienced a turbo failure.
Each one had been running at rated load for HOURS before the problem was caught.
Interesting thread...especially the part about the VII's.
I can remember when star polymers were
supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced marbled rye.
I can remember when star polymers were
supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced marbled rye.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Interesting thread...especially the part about the VII's.
I can remember when star polymers were
supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced marbled rye.
Only if you like the seedless variety. I prefer mine with seeds.
Interesting thread...especially the part about the VII's.
I can remember when star polymers were
supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced marbled rye.
Only if you like the seedless variety. I prefer mine with seeds.
Originally Posted by passgas55
A straight 30wt syn for the win. Who makes such a creature besides Amsoil? Or just about any 10/30 syn
will fit the bill? If I end up with a turbo after warranty it will be a 10/30 oil in my sump.
No way to be sure as 10W-30 is not a dexos approved grade.
A straight 30wt syn for the win. Who makes such a creature besides Amsoil? Or just about any 10/30 syn
will fit the bill? If I end up with a turbo after warranty it will be a 10/30 oil in my sump.
No way to be sure as 10W-30 is not a dexos approved grade.
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by passgas55
A straight 30wt syn for the win. Who makes such a creature besides Amsoil? Or just about any 10/30 syn
will fit the bill? If I end up with a turbo after warranty it will be a 10/30 oil in my sump.
No way to be sure as 10W-30 is not a dexos approved grade.
Synthetic 5W-20 also has very little VII if your vehicle calls for it.
M1 ESP x2 0W-20 API SL/ACEA C5 has almost no VII, only dexosD (light-duty diesel) though.
Originally Posted by passgas55
A straight 30wt syn for the win. Who makes such a creature besides Amsoil? Or just about any 10/30 syn
will fit the bill? If I end up with a turbo after warranty it will be a 10/30 oil in my sump.
No way to be sure as 10W-30 is not a dexos approved grade.
Synthetic 5W-20 also has very little VII if your vehicle calls for it.
M1 ESP x2 0W-20 API SL/ACEA C5 has almost no VII, only dexosD (light-duty diesel) though.
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Is the GM turbo test only part of Dexos? Or also API?
Only dexos. It's called GMW17299.
Both dexos 1 & 2?
No turbocharger test in dexos2.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-dexos1-gen-2-2015-and-dexos2-2009-specs
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Is the GM turbo test only part of Dexos? Or also API?
Only dexos. It's called GMW17299.
Both dexos 1 & 2?
No turbocharger test in dexos2.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-dexos1-gen-2-2015-and-dexos2-2009-specs
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The authors noted that the reason why moly doesn't affect the real turbocharger as much as in TEOST 33C is because the temperatures are much lower: 190 - 275 °C in GM turbochargers or less in modern turbochargers with the engine coolant circulating around the oil-cooled bearing area vs. 480 C in TEOST 33C. Moly decomposes at 300 °C.
The authors call the high moly (7x or 9x the typical treat level and much greater than 150 ppm) being at the truly friction-modifying level.
I remember Redline 5w30 failed the TEOST test in AMSoil's privately funded comparison test of high-end synthetics back in ~2013. Redline typically has 600-700 ppm of Moly. Modern oils using trinuclear Moly usually have ~75 ppm. Trinuc Moly's friction modifying effect saturates at 200 ppm, so less total Moly will be present to oxidize.
The authors noted that the reason why moly doesn't affect the real turbocharger as much as in TEOST 33C is because the temperatures are much lower: 190 - 275 °C in GM turbochargers or less in modern turbochargers with the engine coolant circulating around the oil-cooled bearing area vs. 480 C in TEOST 33C. Moly decomposes at 300 °C.
The authors call the high moly (7x or 9x the typical treat level and much greater than 150 ppm) being at the truly friction-modifying level.
I remember Redline 5w30 failed the TEOST test in AMSoil's privately funded comparison test of high-end synthetics back in ~2013. Redline typically has 600-700 ppm of Moly. Modern oils using trinuclear Moly usually have ~75 ppm. Trinuc Moly's friction modifying effect saturates at 200 ppm, so less total Moly will be present to oxidize.
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