GM To Invest $540 Million In Mexican Engines Plant
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
*Sigh*
GM has operations in mexico. They are a huge seller of cars. How popular would they become (with the population AND the Mexican government) if they refused to invest in their country.
Same goes for china. It would be impossible for GM to sell vehicles in China if they weren't manufactured there. Is it good for US jobs? Not really no. Is it hurting anything? Not really, no. As much as we may not like it, noone can deny that mexican labor is cheaper than US, while still maintaining some semblance of quality control.
Also, FWIW GM has invested large amounts in it's US operations as well. But it has to keep the other markets that it sells cars in happy as well.
Exactly, there is nothing wrong with GM and Ford building in other countries where they sale. Especially when it comes down to not being able to sell at all. Does anyone really think Mexico and china can and would buy lots of vehicles made in the USA? GM and Ford have had production operations in other countries for litterally a 100 years and it was smart business. The problem comes if/when this production starts being imported at a rate to cause a trade deficits. I'm sensing good ol' GM bashing in this thread
.
*Sigh*
GM has operations in mexico. They are a huge seller of cars. How popular would they become (with the population AND the Mexican government) if they refused to invest in their country.
Same goes for china. It would be impossible for GM to sell vehicles in China if they weren't manufactured there. Is it good for US jobs? Not really no. Is it hurting anything? Not really, no. As much as we may not like it, noone can deny that mexican labor is cheaper than US, while still maintaining some semblance of quality control.
Also, FWIW GM has invested large amounts in it's US operations as well. But it has to keep the other markets that it sells cars in happy as well.
Exactly, there is nothing wrong with GM and Ford building in other countries where they sale. Especially when it comes down to not being able to sell at all. Does anyone really think Mexico and china can and would buy lots of vehicles made in the USA? GM and Ford have had production operations in other countries for litterally a 100 years and it was smart business. The problem comes if/when this production starts being imported at a rate to cause a trade deficits. I'm sensing good ol' GM bashing in this thread
"...and the second phase the manufacture of four-cylinder, 1.6-liter and 1.8-liter engines, mostly for cars produced in Mexico."
Smart move by GM, build em where you sell them. But I suppose selling enough cars to be number 1 in the market should get the Mexican worker nothing at all, we should force GM to build everything they make here in the states, while their competition is allowed to use labor at the point of sale worldwide. Just like Ford and GM have been doing since 1904.
For every announcement like this one, I can post three announcements for major investment in American plants. Aside from Ford, what other manufacturer of vehicles can make a similar claim about American investment?
I wonder how many cars Toyota builds in America for consumption in Japan? I wonder why we dont see a post every time Toyota invests in China or outside the US? I wonder why nobody posted a thread when Hyundai just recently opened their newest plant in Russia?
GM is a worldwide manufacturer competing on a world stage, if they produced EVERYTHING they made here in the states, they would be uncompetitive on almost every level. The hypocrisy of decrying every investment they make overseas is business ignorance, especially when viewed against the huge investments they DO make here as well.
Smart move by GM, build em where you sell them. But I suppose selling enough cars to be number 1 in the market should get the Mexican worker nothing at all, we should force GM to build everything they make here in the states, while their competition is allowed to use labor at the point of sale worldwide. Just like Ford and GM have been doing since 1904.
For every announcement like this one, I can post three announcements for major investment in American plants. Aside from Ford, what other manufacturer of vehicles can make a similar claim about American investment?
I wonder how many cars Toyota builds in America for consumption in Japan? I wonder why we dont see a post every time Toyota invests in China or outside the US? I wonder why nobody posted a thread when Hyundai just recently opened their newest plant in Russia?
GM is a worldwide manufacturer competing on a world stage, if they produced EVERYTHING they made here in the states, they would be uncompetitive on almost every level. The hypocrisy of decrying every investment they make overseas is business ignorance, especially when viewed against the huge investments they DO make here as well.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
We need very cheap labor and no drama from the UAW.
Define "cheap labor." While we are at it I think concrete workers should take a pay cut. Maybe coal miners should work cheaper since the coal pollutes the air anyway. Roofers could work cheaper too. They're just pounding nails anyway. How much is that worth?
Right now the new wage at Ford and GM is $14/hr. You hear news and Government talk about new great paying auto jobs. Well, at $28,ooo a year those days are gone. The affect they had on the economy is gone. The impact on tax revenue is gone. Right now GM is finding it impossible so far to hire and KEEP a workforce at that wage. People just will not do that to themselves for that kind of money. Won't do what? Eat up their bodies. People will do it for a price, but $14/hr is not it. And how do you buy a $25,000 car on $28K a year, with a house and family?
Steve
We need very cheap labor and no drama from the UAW.
Define "cheap labor." While we are at it I think concrete workers should take a pay cut. Maybe coal miners should work cheaper since the coal pollutes the air anyway. Roofers could work cheaper too. They're just pounding nails anyway. How much is that worth?
Right now the new wage at Ford and GM is $14/hr. You hear news and Government talk about new great paying auto jobs. Well, at $28,ooo a year those days are gone. The affect they had on the economy is gone. The impact on tax revenue is gone. Right now GM is finding it impossible so far to hire and KEEP a workforce at that wage. People just will not do that to themselves for that kind of money. Won't do what? Eat up their bodies. People will do it for a price, but $14/hr is not it. And how do you buy a $25,000 car on $28K a year, with a house and family?
Steve
I agree. Your post reminded me about a news story I read early today http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41182482/ns/business-us_business. It seems no one wants to pay a fair or even market wage for hard work anymore. In that story it details how a lot of employment is done under the table with illegal immigrant labor. It's become so cheapskate that employers won't even pay minimum wage and along with normal taxes and employer contributions. Some claim how great free market principle is when it suits their interests, but when the market is saying a job doesn't pay enough for the market's living expenses and the job's demands, they go looking for foreign workers. It's back to the industrial revolution days or worse and history repeats itself for those that don't know history.
Originally Posted By: genynnc
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It is the same old GM.
+1, and that's obviously not a good thing.
So I ask, what is a viable solution? If GM tries to create jobs in the US, the unions will get greedy, and stroke GM for everything they can. GM can't stay competitive, and ends up making a poor quailty product. GM then gets rail for quality issues, and people will say it's the same old GM.
I'd love to hear the solution.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It is the same old GM.
+1, and that's obviously not a good thing.
So I ask, what is a viable solution? If GM tries to create jobs in the US, the unions will get greedy, and stroke GM for everything they can. GM can't stay competitive, and ends up making a poor quailty product. GM then gets rail for quality issues, and people will say it's the same old GM.
I'd love to hear the solution.
I love threads like these. Not only does it make me hate GM that much more, but OVERK1LL always posts what I think.
I love threads like this as well, and I'm totally fine with big three investing in any country they want, as long as nobody tells me that if I don't buy from them, I'm not supporting American economy.
GM can build where they want.
But when GM then advertises that folks should buy American, does that mean we should not buy GM cars that have foreign content?
It's not just GM, it's any automaker that wraps itself in the flag and suggests we should buy their product because of the country of origin.
If it's OK for GM to buy or source parts from an international market place, it's hypocritical for them to then suggest consumers should buy a GM because GM is a US company.
I'm shopping for a car, not the location of the corporate HQ. If a GM with an engine built in Mexico is the best offering in the marketplace, I'll buy it. But being or not being a US company does not weigh into the decision for me and my family.
But when GM then advertises that folks should buy American, does that mean we should not buy GM cars that have foreign content?
It's not just GM, it's any automaker that wraps itself in the flag and suggests we should buy their product because of the country of origin.
If it's OK for GM to buy or source parts from an international market place, it's hypocritical for them to then suggest consumers should buy a GM because GM is a US company.
I'm shopping for a car, not the location of the corporate HQ. If a GM with an engine built in Mexico is the best offering in the marketplace, I'll buy it. But being or not being a US company does not weigh into the decision for me and my family.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Let me guess; you think this is great news Tempest.
Not at all. Taxpayer money being funneled to create jobs in a foreign country seems a little counter productive.
As much as I hate GM now due to the bailout, atleast these cars are primairly used in mexico.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Let me guess; you think this is great news Tempest.
Not at all. Taxpayer money being funneled to create jobs in a foreign country seems a little counter productive.
As much as I hate GM now due to the bailout, atleast these cars are primairly used in mexico.
So many are challenged by math. I blame our public school system.
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Awesome! GM is doing a great job spending bailout money where it matters: Mexican jobs.
...guess that's one way to control illegal ahem....undocumented immigration. Move all the jobs to Mexico.
Awesome! GM is doing a great job spending bailout money where it matters: Mexican jobs.
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When GM did their government engineered IPO they sold about 8 billion dollars of stock at $37 something a share. They needed about $70 a share to break even so they really took a big loss. The UAW did a bit better with the shares that Obama gave them as a zero cost gift. The UAW netted about nine billion dollars. The only thing protected by the bail out was the UAW. Now the UAW has no incentive to make things better because when the next failure comes they will make another windfall profit, again. This whole process is a demonstration of the hold the UAW has on politicians and the lengths they to which they will go to advance their cause.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When GM did their government engineered IPO they sold about 8 billion dollars of stock at $37 something a share. They needed about $70 a share to break even so they really took a big loss. The UAW did a bit better with the shares that Obama gave them as a zero cost gift. The UAW netted about nine billion dollars. The only thing protected by the bail out was the UAW. Now the UAW has no incentive to make things better because when the next failure comes they will make another windfall profit, again. This whole process is a demonstration of the hold the UAW has on politicians and the lengths they to which they will go to advance their cause.
LOL...Not even close.
"Through debt repayment, interest income and GM's initial public stock offering last year, taxpayers got back $23.1 billion of nearly $49.5 billion the government put into the nation's largest automaker. The Treasury Department still holds 500 million shares of GM, about 33% of the automaker's stock worth about $19 billion at GM's current share price."
Soooo, if facts concern you at all, then you will see.
After the sale of the remaining 500 million shares, the federal government will lose roughly 7 billion, at todays stock price.
Now, I could go into a discussion about VEBA, the PBGC and the costs that the feds have avoided, how the feds have actually saved money. But somehow I get the feeling there is no point in relaying facts anymore. People just want to believe what they want to believe, facts be [censored]!
When GM did their government engineered IPO they sold about 8 billion dollars of stock at $37 something a share. They needed about $70 a share to break even so they really took a big loss. The UAW did a bit better with the shares that Obama gave them as a zero cost gift. The UAW netted about nine billion dollars. The only thing protected by the bail out was the UAW. Now the UAW has no incentive to make things better because when the next failure comes they will make another windfall profit, again. This whole process is a demonstration of the hold the UAW has on politicians and the lengths they to which they will go to advance their cause.
LOL...Not even close.
"Through debt repayment, interest income and GM's initial public stock offering last year, taxpayers got back $23.1 billion of nearly $49.5 billion the government put into the nation's largest automaker. The Treasury Department still holds 500 million shares of GM, about 33% of the automaker's stock worth about $19 billion at GM's current share price."
Soooo, if facts concern you at all, then you will see.
After the sale of the remaining 500 million shares, the federal government will lose roughly 7 billion, at todays stock price.
Now, I could go into a discussion about VEBA, the PBGC and the costs that the feds have avoided, how the feds have actually saved money. But somehow I get the feeling there is no point in relaying facts anymore. People just want to believe what they want to believe, facts be [censored]!
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