GM moves to void powertrain warranties for mods...

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@d00df00d That's cool man. We're on the same page.
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Originally Posted By: REDDOG
For instance they cannot refuse to repair an engine after you spin a bearing simply because you had a Wix filter on the truck instead of an AC Delco. They have to prove the Wix directly caused the problem.

Why should a manufacturer be able to refuse to fix an oil leak because you had a chip installed? It's not even related and they can't deny the repair or void your warranty. Probably the real reason they fixed it, not just to be nice to another GM guy.

There is a lot of warranty fear on this site. Bow to the big, bad auto manufacturer. Simple demonstration of ones legal rights is usually enough to swing things in your favor. I don't go looking for trouble but refuse to play warranty hostage to an auto manufacturer with a vehicle that is supposed to be mine.


Your example is completely different. A filter is not increasing the power output of the engine. It does not increase stress on the platform. They should be built to the reference specs for the filter that is cross referenced.

Mods that increase power or increase suspension stress are far different. More power at a given efficiency equals more stress on everything. That could equal an oil leak.

Now, if I modded my engine and my power window failed, is that fair? No. But lets be reasonable.
 
That's the crux right there... reasonable.

Every one has been scamming them for a LONG time. This issue was a huge player in the stealerships I worked in as a kid. People were always trying to get us to fix things they had screwed up themselves.

And forget "burden of proof" arguments. Despite the Magnuson-Moss act the dealer can simply lock you out of the system. I've been black listed for brake issues in GM's network before. It took a lot of high priced lawyering to get out of that!
 
This makes sense. Why should they warrant a part that was "stressed out" by an aftermarket chip/PCM/etc....that increased the power to the engine/drivetrain causing the excess wear.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

And forget "burden of proof" arguments. Despite the Magnuson-Moss act the dealer can simply lock you out of the system.


I'm with GM in this one. Some people (kids, perhaps) think the M-M act gives them complete freedom to do whatever they want with their car and the warranty will still be intact. Wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: REDDOG
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: REDDOG
GM can say anything they want but it doesn't make it legal.


It sure is legal. Do you think if you modified your washing machine or lawn mower they would still honor the warranty? Of course not.


It is not legal by itself. The burden of proof lies with the manufacturer to prove aftermarket equipment, modification or owner negligence caused a problem. In the case above they already admit to not testing aftermarket programs so how can they prove they are a problem? They can refuse a particular repair with proof but it is not legal to completely void an entire warranty.

For instance they cannot refuse to repair an engine after you spin a bearing simply because you had a Wix filter on the truck instead of an AC Delco. They have to prove the Wix directly caused the problem.

Why should a manufacturer be able to refuse to fix an oil leak because you had a chip installed? It's not even related and they can't deny the repair or void your warranty. Probably the real reason they fixed it, not just to be nice to another GM guy.

There is a lot of warranty fear on this site. Bow to the big, bad auto manufacturer. Simple demonstration of ones legal rights is usually enough to swing things in your favor. I don't go looking for trouble but refuse to play warranty hostage to an auto manufacturer with a vehicle that is supposed to be mine.



1. You are right. The burden of proof lies on the OEM. However, they have ways now to tell if the PCM has been reflashed.

2. I wasn't the one who said the who warranty was void. Fact is, if you mod the car and blow the transmission, that repair will not be covered and it will be flagged in the vehicles record. If you mod the car and the radio dies, that will be covered because the mods do not effect the radio.

3. Comparing oil filters is not a good comparison - but I understand what you're saying.

4.They did do me a favor being a GM guy because the 3.8 Turbo engine is sensitive to boost and boost blows seals. I was running a chip with 18lbs when the stock configuration was 13. They were going to replace the engine because it was in for the same oil leak 4 times so yeah I know they did me a favor because engine's are not cheap. However - all turned out well and an aftermarket neoprene seal was approved and installed by GM and the problem fixed even to this day. That also became the known "fix" for all other Turbo Regals from then on.
 
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Originally Posted By: Zaedock
@d00df00d That's cool man. We're on the same page.
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Always nice to come to a consensus in a respectful way.
 
If you mod the engine and the tranny blows...

Of course it's not under warranty.

If the trans was manufactured to handle the hp and torque of the engine at factory spec, and you raised the spec, it's not their fault the tranny didn't hold up. Same with the differential.

As far as burden of proof, unless you're rich or a lawyer, you're gonna lose 99.999% of the time. No manufacturer thinks anything of spending $50k in legal fees to keep from paying your $5k warranty claim. They'll tie you up, in the meantime, you're paying notes and insurance on a vehicle you can't drive. If and when it does come to court, one miniscure boo boo on your part, and poof, you lose anyway. Most legitimate lwayers won't even take your case.
 
+1.

They can say no.

"Come sue us."

So you show up to sue them and they say, well we discovered you HACKED your computer, then you UNHACKED it thinking we wouldn't notice. Then they start acting out their CSI fantasies showing how their exclusive computer knows what you did.

Then the non-technical judge/jury thinks you have something up your sleeve before you open your mouth.
 
No problem with their outlook whatsoever. Hop it up, break a drivetrain component you own it.

Unlike Nissan Oz, who blamed the owners for their 4WDs sucking water due to rubbish air inlet location...while driving on the road, albeit in standing water.
 
The Magnuson-Moss act does not allow you to alter the factory programming. Chips and tuners have always lead to warranty issues. It is nothing new.
 
People are delusional if they think the FTC is going to go to bat for a one off case violation of the Magnuson-Moss Act of 1975.

Has about as much weight as threatening to go to the BBB.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The Magnuson-Moss act does not allow you to alter the factory programming. Chips and tuners have always lead to warranty issues. It is nothing new.
Exactly, that was my understanding too.

I.E. a dealer can't "force" you to use their oil, or their filters, for warranty purposes.


But no, it shouldn't protect someone from strapping NOS to their vehicle, or some other "turbo"-like modifications to increase HP/torque beyond what the manufacturer specd.....
 
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