GM moves to void powertrain warranties for mods...

[Hokiefyd]

Caution to those who "chip" their GM vehicles while still under warranty:

Quote:
When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed, even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.


From: Autoserviceprofessional.com article link

 

[eljefino]

No shock there. Related to diesel pickups?

 

[REDDOG]

GM can say anything they want but it doesn't make it legal.

 

[rshaw125]

I don't blame them one bit. I am surprised that it did not already void the warranty.

 

[salv]

IT DOES NOT VOID YOUR WARRANTY. THE WAY THAT IT WORKS IS THAT IF ANY PART OR SYSTEM FAILURE IS FOUND TO BE CAUSED BY AN AFTERMARKET ADD ON, THEN THAT PARTICULAR REPAIR IS NOT WARRANTABLE. THE MANUFACTURER AND DEALERSHIP CAN THEN FLAG THE VIN NUMBER AND MAKE DECISIONS ON FUTURE REPAIRS THAT MAY BE TRACED TO THE USE OF AFTERMARKET ADD ONS.
BASIC RULE OF THUMB IS, DON'T USE AFTERMARKET ADD ONS UNLESS EITHER APPROVED BY THE MANUFACTURER, OR GUARUNTEED BY THE PART MANUFACTURER. AND OF COURSE HAVE THEM INSTALLED ONLY BY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS THAT YOU CAN GO BACK TO IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM THAT THE MANUFACTURER CANNOT ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR.
AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURERS DO NOT, WILL NOT AND SHOULD NOT HAVE TO MAKE ACCOMODATIONS FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO MODIFY THEIR VEHICLES.

 

[Zaedock]

salv, why are you yelling?



Your post is a paradox. You state that it doesn't void your warranty, but also state that if a component fails because of an aftermarket add on (in this case, ECM program) than that particular repair is not warrantable. Which is it?

The bottom line is -if you screw with your factory engine settings and blow your engine, why should GM warranty it? THEY sold you a running car. YOU screwed it up.

 

[salv]

NOT YELLING. WORK COMPUTER.
VOIDING A WARRANTY MEANS THAT NO ASPECT OF THE WARRANTY IS VALID ANY LONGER. NOT PROVIDING COVERAGE FOR A PARTICULAR COMPONENT IN ONE INSTANCE IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO VOIDING THE WARRANTY.
FOR INSTANCE, WE HAD A CAR COME IN THAT HAD INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE DO TO OIL LOSS FROM AN IMPROPERLY TIGHTENED OIL FILTER. WE DID NOT WARRANTY THE ENGINE. THE SHOP THAT PERFORMED THE OIL CHANGE COVERED THE COST TO REPLACE THE MOTOR WITH A USED UNIT VIA THEIR INSURANCE. WE DID FLAG THE VIN, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE WILL NOT WARRANTY ANY ENGINE RELATED ISSUES IN THE FUTURE. THEIR POWERTRAIN WARRANTY IS NOT VOIDED, NOR IS THE REMAINDER OF THEIR WARRANTY.

 

[SteveSRT8]

This is no different since the sixties. The Magnuson-Moss act is almost unenforceable, as the LARGE corps can easily dodge it in court or ignore it altogether.

Bottom line is they should NOT have to warranty anything we muck around on/with. They've actually been quite generous on this issue in many cases, as people are always trying to remove a supercharger and then bring in a blown engine, etc.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: REDDOG
GM can say anything they want but it doesn't make it legal.


It sure is legal. Do you think if you modified your washing machine or lawn mower they would still honor the warranty? Of course not.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Caution to those who "chip" their GM vehicles while still under warranty:

Quote:
When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed, even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.


From: Autoserviceprofessional.com article link



This is old news. They started with the Diesels a few years back and now are across the board. They can now tell when a "tune" has been installed...even if you remove it prior too dealer service on several new models.

GM is not the only one doing this, either. I actually ALMOST was denied warranty service way back in 1988 when I took my Buick Grand National in for oil leak warranty work,. I left the pitbull chip in the car and they discovered it. The GM zone rep contacted me to tell me he was denying repairs. I got lucky once he found out I worked for GM too and he let it slide and covered the repairs anyhow.

I don't blame the mfgs...warranty costs can be a large chunk of the business operating expense and why should they pay for repairs that may have been due to aftermarket mods and other things that were not designed into the car at the start?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Your post is a paradox. You state that it doesn't void your warranty, but also state that if a component fails because of an aftermarket add on (in this case, ECM program) than that particular repair is not warrantable. Which is it?

If you close one program on your computer, is that the same thing as turning the computer off?

If you skip one word in a sentence, does the whole sentence cease to exist?

If you stop eating hamburgers, does that mean you're a vegetarian?


When a repair is not warrantable, it just means the customer is on the hook for that one particular repair. Voiding a warranty means the customer is on the hook for ALL repairs now and in the future.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: salv
IT DOES NOT VOID YOUR....

Too caps, too loud, too rude, too obnoxious. Didn't read.

 

[Quest]

YEah, CAPs lock all the way, too hard to read, skip the whole thing.

to salv:

If you want to get your points across, type in lower case letters. Seasoned bulletinboard readers including yours-truly have been conditioned to systematically ignore postings (doesn't even bother to go through it...eybeballs bounced)all in caps lock.

Also: it's considered very, very rude.

Q.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: salv
IT DOES NOT VOID YOUR....

Too caps, too loud, too rude, too obnoxious. Didn't read.


And you should since he is actually trying to contribute to this thread.


I agree with GM's decision, too many wannabe e-bay bolt on tuners are trying to scam the warranty system.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Your post is a paradox. You state that it doesn't void your warranty, but also state that if a component fails because of an aftermarket add on (in this case, ECM program) than that particular repair is not warrantable. Which is it?

If you close one program on your computer, is that the same thing as turning the computer off?

If you skip one word in a sentence, does the whole sentence cease to exist?

If you stop eating hamburgers, does that mean you're a vegetarian?


When a repair is not warrantable, it just means the customer is on the hook for that one particular repair. Voiding a warranty means the customer is on the hook for ALL repairs now and in the future.


If you mod your motor and the tranny blows, that's warrantable? Re-read the first post. We're talking about the Powertrain warranty, not the entire car. Any mod to ANY component in the powertrain is cause for warranty denial. It's black and white and in my experience has always been that way. GM is just starting to enforce it more.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: salv
NOT YELLING.

Basic internet etiquette equates writing in all caps to yelling. It also makes it hard to read. Are you saying your work computer does not allow you to switch off caps and type in lower case?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
If you mod your motor and the tranny blows, that's warrantable? Re-read the first post. We're talking about the Powertrain warranty, not the entire car. Any mod to ANY component in the powertrain is cause for warranty denial. It's black and white and in my experience has always been that way. GM is just starting to enforce it more.

I was just trying to explain the difference between a repair not being warrantable and a warranty being void. I made no reference to "the entire car" vs. just the powertrain. I was talking about individual repairs vs. the entire warranty.

I am fully aware of what GM is doing, the legal issues around it, and what this thread is about. I was responding to a statement in your post that seemed to indicate that you don't understand the difference between "we won't fix this one thing" and "your warranty is void."

 

[REDDOG]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: REDDOG
GM can say anything they want but it doesn't make it legal.


It sure is legal. Do you think if you modified your washing machine or lawn mower they would still honor the warranty? Of course not.


It is not legal by itself. The burden of proof lies with the manufacturer to prove aftermarket equipment, modification or owner negligence caused a problem. In the case above they already admit to not testing aftermarket programs so how can they prove they are a problem? They can refuse a particular repair with proof but it is not legal to completely void an entire warranty.

For instance they cannot refuse to repair an engine after you spin a bearing simply because you had a Wix filter on the truck instead of an AC Delco. They have to prove the Wix directly caused the problem.

Why should a manufacturer be able to refuse to fix an oil leak because you had a chip installed? It's not even related and they can't deny the repair or void your warranty. Probably the real reason they fixed it, not just to be nice to another GM guy.

There is a lot of warranty fear on this site. Bow to the big, bad auto manufacturer. Simple demonstration of ones legal rights is usually enough to swing things in your favor. I don't go looking for trouble but refuse to play warranty hostage to an auto manufacturer with a vehicle that is supposed to be mine.

 

[BigCahuna]

This might explain what effects your warranty. http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

 

[JHZR2]

Makes perfect sense. Why should the vendor accept risk for untested/unverified parts that a (likely) unknowledgable owner puts on?