SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Oh. believe me, I know not to hold breath on anything except the EV or simple ICE.
GM kills hydrogen fuel cell development for automotive use
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Oh. believe me, I know not to hold breath on anything except the EV or simple ICE.My theory on Toyota's FCEV work is really more of a "just in case" research platform. They may work out they may not, but if they don't and everyone has it they are screwed.
Their bread and butter is in the hybrid and soon BEV.
Their bread and butter is in the hybrid and soon BEV.
The only real alternative to gasoline / diesel is either BEV or ethanol / bio diesel in the US. I think people would rather work from home and do all purchase online to tolerate $8/gal gas than running all ethanol and bio diesel here.
Not in this life. History shows that people who talk on that matter don't end well.
I remember when Honda was trying to sell the Civic GX to “regular” consumers, not just government/taxi fleets that GM/Ford/Mopar targeted with the CNG versions of the Corsica/Lumina, Taurus/Tempo/Crown Vic, Intrepid/Stratus and the “work truck” trims of the C/K trucks/F-150/Ram 1500 - Toyota sold a CNG Camry in California/Oregon/Washington for municipal fleet sales. PG&E/SoCal Gas was waving an incentive. Consumers rejected it for the hybrid version.
The only high pressure gas the layperson has experience with are scuba/paintball tanks. Gas stations didn’t want to install CNG equipment, to fuel one at home would take a long time - you need to somehow take natural gas that’s coming in at .5-1psi from your utility and turn that into 3000psi(also the same pressure a typical aluminum scuba tank is rated to at full capacity) CNG to fill the car up. There’s commercial CNG but only in major cities and truck routes.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I have always thought they all should have jumped deeply into the hybrids as the start.
By proving the hybrids design to folks, by pushing / advertising them , with incentives just like the EVs had so long. Moving folks into hybrids first will help ease the total EV anxiety many have. By improving the one thing (hybrids) I really think that can help movement off ICE vehicles even faster than anything else. It establishes trust and can get folks familiar with the new designs that are not ICE. Incentives from states and feds along with prices that middle class families can afford will help too. Folks with tight working class budgets will not jump to expensive EVs first. Just wont happen. Thru affordable hybrids people can dip their toes into the new technology and find out if it is for them. My very next vehicle will be total ICE but I can imagine the next one being a hybrid. No reasons (except maybe cost) I can see will stop me.
Yeah, but just keep in mind the eight dollar gallon gas is because of taxes, fees and restrictions on the petroleum industry where you live for a very significant part of that price
When I mentioned gasoline price, we have to know the actual price for the gallon and even then, from what I understand on the West Coast, the refineries there are discouraged and highly taxed at the refinery level
When I’m trying to say is of electric vehicles or all that was on the road in California, the state would have to come up with funds on the backs of those vehicles if that makes any sense
You in the Carolinas even with all the taxes that we had on over the years I think it’s just kept with inflation since around 1980 but I’m just pulling numbers off the top of my head right now
I mean, we were just at Sam’s Club and Costco today, a gallon of gas was either 247 or 257
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Gasoline prices here in the deep south (close to lots of refineries) and fuel shipping services, I think helps our fuel prices move a little bit slower than most places. Should keep our prices lower though I can't tell if that helps or not. The way they always have any silly reason to say why the prices go up or then take so long to drop makes it hard to say.
Right now fuel near me is back to within a few pennies to where it was before 2020 when someone purposely did all sorts of things that directly caused the prices of fuel to sky rocket. Purposely raised the prices of gasoline and diesel for many reasons we can not discuss.
Right now fuel near me is back to within a few pennies to where it was before 2020 when someone purposely did all sorts of things that directly caused the prices of fuel to sky rocket. Purposely raised the prices of gasoline and diesel for many reasons we can not discuss.
Mopeds are 0.01%
People are running successfully propane/LPG in Europe for at least 30-40 years now. There are propane stations everywhere - propane is sold along with gasoline at same stations. Propane is 2-3x cheaper than gasoline.
Modification to the fuel system cost about $500-1000 over there with installation and ECU tune. With modifications 2-strokes can be run on propane too.
You still keep you gasoline fuel injection and can choose to run either on gas or propane. Matter of fact you need to start always on gasoline and switch to propane right after the engine warms up. It's related to evaporator which turns the LPG from liquid to vapor before it goes in the cylinders.
The Menard's rental pickup trucks were converted to LPG back in the days (not sure how are they now) and they also were selling LPG fuel system kit for a couple of hundreds.
Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154801187406
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1293209-6-2-autogas-conversion.html
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Excellent point. I wonder how to calculate the cost of patrolling the Strait of Hormuz to ensure the safe and free flow of international shipping, particularly oil and gas, through this critical strategic choke point.
I bet it's a lot...
The only way hydrogen-powered anything makes sense is if the hydrogen is separated and compressed using nuclear fission; and even then, it’s still going to be much more expensive than BEV or PHEV per unit of energy.
A dream gone down in flames, if you can pardon the pun.
A dream gone down in flames, if you can pardon the pun.
But the advantage of H2 is that it's supply cycle closely resembles that of hydrocarbon fuels. Government bureaucrats are very comfortable with their position and ability to exert themselves and justify their existence on gasoline, diesel, and natural gas. Therefore they expect to retain their jobs if they can insert hydrogen into the mix.
OTOH electricity is predominantly produced by public utilities who are forbidden to make campaign contributions and not subject the same heavy hand of regulation and taxation as hydrocarbon fuels.
The Prius is the laurel Toyota is resting on. A smart move though Tesla has proven consumers do buy BEVs and they can be sexy - not socially awkward like a Prius or constrained like an EV1 or the early BEV versions of the Ranger/S-10/RAV4 that were mainly for CARB compliance.
But if Toyota did kill off the Prius after the second or third generation and worked on its BEV successor, Tesla would have never went beyond the Roadster and Model S. But then again, if it wasn’t for the lowly Prius, there would be no Tesla. No KERS in F1(and in Ferraris). No mass-market EV adoption. Uber(in its present form), Lyft and DoorDash might not have existed. Cabbies would still be driving Crown Vics or retired cop car Chargers/Caprices. The Prius was the gateway drug into xEVs.
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A loooooooooooooong list of positions needs to be added to the list of those forbidden to make campaign contributions. Starting with torching the Citizens United SCOTUS decision.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
That sounds great to me. Wonder why or by who such an easy switch over type of deal has been stopped from being phased into the vehicles in the USA? There has to be some reason that a thing like the running on propane / gasoline has not caught on in the USA?
There is only one reason - petrol companies make more money out of gasoline than LPG.
The more "popular reason" though is that the propane tank is dangerous and big liability for insurance companies. I wonder why it is not in Europe? Propane cars have the same insurance as gasoline cars.
The tank is mounted either on the place of the spare tire or on the back of the back seat.
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/...sheriff-saves-big-with-10-propane-patrol-cars
https://www.co.polk.or.us/sheriff/sheriffs-office-will-save-20k-annually#:~:text=The%20Polk%20County%20Sheriff's%20Office,March%202013%20and%20recently%20completed.
The more "popular reason" though is that the propane tank is dangerous and big liability for insurance companies. I wonder why it is not in Europe? Propane cars have the same insurance as gasoline cars.
The tank is mounted either on the place of the spare tire or on the back of the back seat.
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/...sheriff-saves-big-with-10-propane-patrol-cars
https://www.co.polk.or.us/sheriff/sheriffs-office-will-save-20k-annually#:~:text=The%20Polk%20County%20Sheriff's%20Office,March%202013%20and%20recently%20completed.
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Propane is expensive to transport but they do run cleaner. Still both are fossil fuel and not much different other than emission. Hydrogen is not "generated" by breaking water bond, the energy to break the water bond comes from electricity and therefore likely from a natural gas power plant statistically speaking. Might as well crack natural gas into H2 and burn the C as the energy for that process, and that's what they did. Might as well just burn the CH4 directly in an engine. That's why stationary power uses SOFC instead of HFC and transfer the oxygen ion to bind with the CH4 instead of the hydrogen ion to bind with the oxygen in the air, it is a lot more convenient and cheaper despite lower efficiency.
In theory HFC can have higher efficiency than a combustion engine but you are going to pay for it in cost of compressing H2, preventing leak, storing the HFC electricity output in a battery to avoid burst duty cycle, and after all that overhead the 90% HFC efficiency may just break even with a 40% Atkinson engine in a hybrid, at a much higher cost and inconvenience.
In theory HFC can have higher efficiency than a combustion engine but you are going to pay for it in cost of compressing H2, preventing leak, storing the HFC electricity output in a battery to avoid burst duty cycle, and after all that overhead the 90% HFC efficiency may just break even with a 40% Atkinson engine in a hybrid, at a much higher cost and inconvenience.
There was a time I was convinced hydrogen would be the saviour of ICE. But now that I've experienced EV life on a daily basis, I no longer see it like that. The EV population will grow, our grids and electricity manufacturing plants will grow, batteries will become more energy dense, charging will become faster and more convenient, and those of us who like to keep older cars will be forced to use carbon neutral fuels such as HVO and ethanol. And right now, I'm okay with that.
I never thought I'd be saying that 2-3 years ago.
I never thought I'd be saying that 2-3 years ago.
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Oh here you go again … At least you know gas is cheap and taxes placed on the industry is not. Which when it comes to gas tax CA is at the top in the nation.
Look at the tax burden on gasoline compared to much of the nation why you pay 25% or more
Then again that is cheap compared to over 200% to as much as 400% more for electricity then I pay in the Carolina’s
The main cost of energy is how you vote and the tax as well as restrictions your state imposes on the industry
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