GM Coolant Alternatives for coolant intellectuals?

I have a 98 Cavalier that my dad bought new and followed the 100k drain times. This is a early change over car and the coolant looks fantastic. Original head gasket, intake gasket, radiator. When the water pump and hoses were changed it looked perfectly clean inside.

A good friend of mine owns/runs a shop that does LS engine tuning and builds. He will only use Dexcool and has heads off LSx GM cars every day.
 
I too have researched this issue ad nauseum years ago and did it all again two months ago. Both times I have concluded that I cannot beat G-O5 so that is what I use in my vehicles.

I have replaced leaking GM intake manifold gaskets on both of my GM vehicles. I switched an old Toyota to Dexcool when it first came out and lost the heater core a few years later. I would not use Dexcool if you gave it to me.
 
Originally Posted By: Fortecarbon
But I am search for BEST. I enjoy working on and maintaining my vehicles and equipment and it is a good feeling to find and use a superior product it make the time spent seem a little more worth it.


Define "superior" in regards to coolant.

Does not DexCool keep your engine at its correct temperature and not freeze overnight?
What else does a "superior" coolant offer?
 
Wow...you guys are the best when it comes to fluid tech/knowledge and I have to say I am really surprised at the defense of Dexcool.

I find it interesting that many have mentioned or alluded to GM designing their newer engines to be compatible with Dexcool. Doesn't that seem a little backwards?

Most of the time I am a proponent of OEM but for some reason my gut feel is not in favor of Dexcool. I can't get over the fact that there seems to be better coolants out there. My suspicion is that when GM was looking for a coolant, their top priorities were not necessarily the best for longevity. I would be willing to bet that a universal coolant for their entire line, price, supply, branding/licensing were high on the list as well.

I believe Chrysler/Jeep uses G-05, because the Mercedes guys seem to think that a Jeep dealer is a cheaper way to get a jug. I have no idea what Ford specs... but c'mon, there is no way that GM vehicles are so different from Chrysler, and Ford (and probably every other manufacturer)in terms of metallurgy or coolant needs. They probably all buy radiators from the same place, all have aluminum or iron block, aluminum heads, water pump gaskets, bearings, plastic, etc etc.

I get it... Dexcool is fine as long as... and...and...and...

Thank you Cressida for taking my side on this....I really think I am going to flush the [censored] out of it and use G-05. Call me a rebel !!
 
Originally Posted By: Fortecarbon
I can't get over the fact that there seems to be better coolants out there. My suspicion is that when GM was looking for a coolant, their top priorities were not necessarily the best for longevity.

I get it... Dexcool is fine as long as... and...and...and...

Thank you Cressida for taking my side on this....I really think I am going to flush the [censored] out of it and use G-05. Call me a rebel !!


I would not argue that Dexcool is better than G-05, I don't think it is. Much like I would not argue against 33 PSI in your car tire being better than 30. LOL

I will disagree, I think GM was going for longevity when it made Dex Cool. Maybe that was part of the problem. How many major car companies had OEM 100,000 mile coolant in 1995?
 
I'm still using Dexcool in my 1999 Alero because it would be really difficult to flush it all out 100% and I don't want to take a chance on mixing Dexcool and regular old green stuff. My Main reason for even wanting to do it would be to not keep 2 different types of coolant around, not because there is really anything wrong with Dexcool.
 
Originally Posted By: Shark


I will disagree, I think GM was going for longevity when it made Dex Cool. Maybe that was part of the problem. How many major car companies had OEM 100,000 mile coolant in 1995?


Entirely agree, Shark. Longevity is exactly what they are going for and why it's as good as anything else out there. Switching to something else because they screwed up the reservoirs and the material specifications on one particular engine a decade ago is not a sound reason to do a lot of labor now to correct a non-existent problem, or to justify the added risk of contamination going to a different chemistry.

"TCO" is an important metric to car companies and a stable, long-life coolant is a big help here. Cheaping out on it is not an option for them.

Even Toyota didn't start rolling out their SLLC until c.2004. I am not a GM fanboy (own none nor have I since 1986), but DexCool is not inferior junk.
 
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I went through the Dexcool nightmare long time ago on a brand new 1998 Malibu. The lower intake gaskets were plastic, and Dexcool over time would cause them to deteriorate. There was also some compatibility problems with certain solders, but I think that's all been worked out too.

On a late model vehicle that is spec for it, I don't see a problem using it. Pretty sure all the problems of the past have been fixed by now. On an older car that is spec for original green or the Ford G-05, I would definitely use those instead of Dexcool/clones.
 
Guys, it's too late to fall in love with G-05 anymore. It's been put out to pasture.

With all the passion that G-05 garnishes here, it is ironic that both Ford and Chrysler have now moved away from it and joined the OAT bandwagon. The new Chrysler product does NOT have 2EHA and they recommend a 10 year change. http://articles.sae.org/11284/

John Deere II has 3 OAT components, but I cannot verify if the coolant is considered OAT or HOAT. Either way, these changes say something about OAT, in general.
 
I bought a 2003 Chevy Blazer in 2006 with 32900 miles on it. I had to replace the manifold gasket and the radiator on it. It now has 117000 miles on it. That being a Dexcool vehicle. The vehicle replaced a 1993 Chevy S-10. I got that in 1996 and it had 66000 mile when I got it and 118500 miles when I got rid of it. It had the old green stuff. I had to replace the heater core twice, an elbow in the cooling system, and the water pump. To me, the old green stuff is just as bad as Dexcool.
 
Originally Posted By: NH73
I bought a 2003 Chevy Blazer in 2006 with 32900 miles on it. I had to replace the manifold gasket and the radiator on it. It now has 117000 miles on it. That being a Dexcool vehicle. The vehicle replaced a 1993 Chevy S-10. I got that in 1996 and it had 66000 mile when I got it and 118500 miles when I got rid of it. It had the old green stuff. I had to replace the heater core twice, an elbow in the cooling system, and the water pump. To me, the old green stuff is just as bad as Dexcool.


That is more like GM Blazer quality problems, not coolant related failures. My parents bought a 98 blazer many years ago and experienced the intake gasket failure (like every blazer on the road). They failed because GM used a plastic gasket sandwiched between aluminum parts. The redesigned replacement and OEM part on 4.3's starting in 2005 do not fail.
 
GM used plastic gaskets. 2-eha, a known plasticiser in Dexcool, was basically deforming the plastic gaskets. GM never admitted to this, but did settle a class action lawsuit, and the rest is history.
 
Originally Posted By: BigD1
GM used plastic gaskets. 2-eha, a known plasticiser in Dexcool, was basically deforming the plastic gaskets. GM never admitted to this, but did settle a class action lawsuit, and the rest is history.





Good info, this does not come up in searches. However, I do not think this means Dexcool is flawed, rather the gasket itself.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself


John Deere II has 3 OAT components, but I cannot verify if the coolant is considered OAT or HOAT. Either way, these changes say something about OAT, in general.


Not all OAT components are a problem 2-EHA is with some plastic frame gaskets. Cool-Guard II does not contain any.
If someone is running an GM engine known to use these gaskets and is uncertain if they have been updated to newer aluminum frame ones it is a good idea to dump the dexcool.

Engines with dry intakes are not an issue, there are no plastic frame head gaskets or others in the engine. It seems harmless to plastic radiator tanks and overflow bottles so there is no reason to change from dexcool.

Interesting thread..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1696012
 
Lots of great information! Thank you everyone for contributing.

That is a great SAE article and I had not really paid attention to the JD formulation, but that too is great information.

So... after reading and pondering all of the information brought to the table, I still believe that Dexcool was formulated with factors other than longevity in mind (Cost). I am not talking about coolant longevity, clearly that was a priority. I am talking about the longevity of the cooling system as a whole or vehicle as a whole.

Its clear that many other manufacturers have chosen to avoid 2-EHA. They didn't do this to make their lives easier... Its also been pointed out in many places that 2-EHA is a low cost alternative.

Again, this is only my formulated opinion... Dexcool does in fact do a good job and transferring heat, preventing boiling and freezing, protecting components against corrosion (in the right conditions) and lasting a long time. BUT you are settling for the low cost solution with some significant trade offs. 2-EHA softens and eats plastic. OK, so GM changed to some more resistant gaskets..... I don't know about you, but I see an awful lot of plastic in there. I also find it very interesting that Dexcool needs such a long period of time to build up corrosion resistance.

Its almost disappointing....for the most part I think GM is a good product, but then they cut corners, if ever so small, they add up. And customers except it.

Anyway....for me, its going to be something better. I think I may go get a couple jugs of JD cool guard II. And as an added bonus, it sounds like it would be a good choice for the Genset, tractor, boat (which is running Dexcool - [censored]-it).
 
Originally Posted By: Fortecarbon

I believe Chrysler/Jeep uses G-05, because the Mercedes guys seem to think that a Jeep dealer is a cheaper way to get a jug. I have no idea what Ford specs... but c'mon, there is no way that GM vehicles are so different from Chrysler, and Ford (and probably every other manufacturer)in terms of metallurgy or coolant needs. They probably all buy radiators from the same place, all have aluminum or iron block, aluminum heads, water pump gaskets, bearings, plastic, etc etc.


Chrysler quit using G-05 in 2014- their OEM "Red" coolant is G-05, their current OEM "Purple" coolant is... something else. Not sure what, haven't researched it. Ford "Motorcraft Gold" is G-05, exactly the same as Chrysler G-05 and Zerex G-05, except the Chrysler (Mopar brand) is dyed red instead of yellow. Yellow is really hard to see in the overflow tank, red makes it easy but looks an awful lot like DexCool so can be confusing to techs. Ford has also phased out G-05 for a newer coolant and again I'm not really sure what they settled upon.

As for metallurgy, I beg to differ with you. General Motors made a very careful and deliberate effort to eliminate iron, lead, zinc, tin, and copper alloys from their whole cooling system after the initial round of problems with DexCool. There's not a speck of solder, a piece of iron, and very little copper (oil-to-water coolers, maybe) in a GM cooling system. Chrysler, on the other hand, still produces iron block engines with aluminum heads, water pumps, etc., using the higher strength of iron to pretty much match the weight of a GM block because less volume of iron is needed. GM also studiously removed all plastics that were subject to deterioration when exposed to 2EHA in Dexcool. A modern GM system is truly 100% "ready" for DexCool, but a Ford or Chrysler (or Benz, or Toyota, or BMW) system is not. GM definitely did it backwards by switching to DexCool and then finding/eliminating all the failures using customers as test cases, but they did get there ultimately.

I'm not a fan of DexCool and I consider it to be the absolute *least* universal coolant out there... but it does work extremely well in GM vehicles that are meticulously prepared for it. Member SteveSRT8 has attested to it in his company's fleet trucks that *never* get a coolant change until a component fails, and never see corrosion or other problems
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Guys, it's too late to fall in love with G-05 anymore. It's been put out to pasture.

With all the passion that G-05 garnishes here, it is ironic that both Ford and Chrysler have now moved away from it and joined the OAT bandwagon. The new Chrysler product does NOT have 2EHA and they recommend a 10 year change. http://articles.sae.org/11284/


See my previous post, its well-known that G-05 is declining as an OEM coolant. But it makes perfect sense- it was a *step* toward longer-life coolants, but it still protected all the same metallurgies, and all the same engines as traditional inorganic coolants did. GM paid a huge price for jumping straight to pure OAT (and a 2EHA OAT at that!). Ford, Chrysler, Benz, Deere, and others used G-05 until all of the older engines were out of production and all the engines being sold were built from the oil pan to valve cover for modern OAT coolants... THEN they dropped G-05. It bridged the gap without causing massive warranty claims.

The fact that its no longer OEM doesn't make G-05 any less desirable for older vehicles, but I've already said that I would stick with DexCool in a 2011 GM application. As I said, we have a user who has many examples of GM engines going far longer than the recommended interval on DexCool with absolutely no coolant-related issues. I honestly can't think of another engine/coolant combo that currently does that quite as well, and its largely *because* DexCool is so chemically simple (relative to the others) and stable.
 
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