GM Bondholders refusing debt-for-equity offer

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3,358
Location
Maryland
They are going into bankruptcy, if you look at there sales over the past few years I think they are selling like 40% to 50% fewer cars each year. I think the GM Bondholders will stand firm.
 
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3,358
Location
Maryland
I think a lot of state retirements for the teachers and police have GM Bonds, I think they will fight instead of just loosing money, they will try to get something for there investment. Maybe we can start by having Rick Wagoner give back the 20 million GM gave him when he left.
 
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4,998
Location
Milwaukee, WI
If GM does declare bankruptcy, the bondholders are first in line for money. So why would they try to prevent a bankruptcy and hurt themselves in the process? It doesn't make sense. Chrysler got around this by filing for bankruptcy. I don't understand why GM won't. For better or worse Chrysler is making changes quickly. GM hasn't moved in a year. All they've done is eliminated Pontiac. This year. Or next year. Or the year after that. Chrysler will have dropped 600 leeching dealers by the time the meeting starts at GM.
 
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1,346
Location
Texas
 Originally Posted By: c3po
Maybe we can start by having Rick Wagoner give back the 20 million GM gave him when he left.
Hey now! This isnt Japan and he worked hard for that money!
 
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3,358
Location
Maryland
 Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
 Originally Posted By: c3po
Maybe we can start by having Rick Wagoner give back the 20 million GM gave him when he left.
Hey now! This isnt Japan and he worked hard for that money!
I am sorry, but what he got was excessive, I have a neighbor who collects $24,000 a year from the state retirement system, he was a teacher for 30 years, he would have to live for 833 years to collect 20 million dollars.
 
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18,449
Location
East of IGO
 Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
 Originally Posted By: c3po
Maybe we can start by having Rick Wagoner give back the 20 million GM gave him when he left.
Hey now! This isn't Japan and he worked hard for that money!
I could have run the corp into the ground just as good as Rick did for less $$$. It seems many complain about the union costs when the CEOs pay package rips the quality out of the cars.
 
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34,972
Location
NY
 Originally Posted By: rshaw125
The government should never have gotten involved in this to begin with.
+1, the more time I think about this the more I think that sometimes nature must take its course.
 
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468
Location
new Jersey
'If GM does declare bankruptcy, the bondholders are first in line for money.' Nice if it were true but O is aiming at giving most bondholders 28 cents on the dollar while the UAW Med fund which is a GM bondholder gets 50 cents !
 
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1,346
Location
Texas
 Originally Posted By: Steve S
It seems many complain about the union costs when the CEOs pay package rips the quality out of the cars.
A $20 million package compared to union costs is like a drip compared to an open faucet.
 
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6,367
Location
Midwest
 Originally Posted By: c3po
Maybe we can start by having Rick Wagoner give back the 20 million GM gave him when he left.
I'm not defending the record of Rick Wagnoner, but he had a contract with GM that was approved by the GM board of directors and GM lived up to the contract. GM didn't fair too well under Jack Smith either, but I don't hear anyone calling for him to return any of his compensation. Much of what Smith failed to do was groundwork for Wagoners failure. The real blame lies with the GM board for failing to tie Wagoner's performance and pay together. But then it seems to be the culture of the automakers not to tie employees paychecks to their performance at any level-why should Wagoner be any different?
 
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1,798
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
 Originally Posted By: bepperb
Chrysler got around this by filing for bankruptcy. I don't understand why GM won't. For better or worse Chrysler is making changes quickly. GM hasn't moved in a year.
The Chrysler bankruptcy scheme is not final, and there are many unhappy bondholders. I do not think the scheme will be upheld, I do not think Chrysler's effort at Chapter 11 will succeed. I expect Chrysler to go into Chapter 7 liquidation; none of the factories will open again, Fiat is covering its bets with a bid for Opel. For hundreds of years, bondholders have had first claim on the assets of a bankrupt debtor. Barack Obama cannot repeal the legal framework of bankruptcy law by himself, he cannot overturn 200 or 300 years of precedent. In fact, I suspect the basic principles of bankruptcy law extend back nearly 2000 years to Roman law.
 
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1,768
Location
NE
 Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
 Originally Posted By: bepperb
Chrysler got around this by filing for bankruptcy. I don't understand why GM won't. For better or worse Chrysler is making changes quickly. GM hasn't moved in a year.
The Chrysler bankruptcy scheme is not final, and there are many unhappy bondholders. I do not think the scheme will be upheld, I do not think Chrysler's effort at Chapter 11 will succeed. I expect Chrysler to go into Chapter 7 liquidation; none of the factories will open again, Fiat is covering its bets with a bid for Opel. For hundreds of years, bondholders have had first claim on the assets of a bankrupt debtor. Barack Obama cannot repeal the legal framework of bankruptcy law by himself, he cannot overturn 200 or 300 years of precedent. In fact, I suspect the basic principles of bankruptcy law extend back nearly 2000 years to Roman law.
It is a done deal, they will sell the assets to Fiat today. The new Chrysler Group will be out of bankruptcy next week. The small groups which forced the bankruptcy didnt have a chance since over 90% of the debt was held by the large banks which themselves received bailout money so they couldnt hold things up, hence the Obama team held all the cards. With GM it wont be so easy since most of the debt is private and these folks wont have to cave in. http://www.detnews.com/article/20090527/...sler+asset+sale
 
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1,420
Location
Balto.
 Originally Posted By: bepperb
If GM does declare bankruptcy, the bondholders are first in line for money. So why would they try to prevent a bankruptcy and hurt themselves in the process? It doesn't make sense. Chrysler got around this by filing for bankruptcy. I don't understand why GM won't. For better or worse Chrysler is making changes quickly. GM hasn't moved in a year. All they've done is eliminated Pontiac. This year. Or next year. Or the year after that. Chrysler will have dropped 600 leeching dealers by the time the meeting starts at GM.
DIP goes to the front of the line.
 
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606
Location
essex ontario
I've read that Chrysler could be out from under chapter 11 by the end of june,hope it goes as quik for GM ,but given its size could be a bit longer. Liquidation does not bear thinking about.
 
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