GM and Honda calling it quits...

E365 said:
I’m not so sure. Toyota used to be the #1 selling automaker in the USA. GM has blown WAY
past them.

View attachment 185185

Honda’s growth rate is pretty massive right now too compared to Toyota.

View attachment 185186
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For 90 years GM was #1 in the USA, only 1 year did Toyota surpass them and let's not forget the world disrupter at the time. Coming out of Covid.

World wide is another story,
Toyota is the #1 brand world wide. VW #2, Hyundai Kia #3, Stellantis #4, GM#5 (GM and Stellantis are neck and neck in any given year) Ford is right after in #6 (for 2022) and the other American owned care company Tesla is #15 for 2022

Source - https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacturer.html
 
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BMWTurboDzl said:
Maybe he's thinking of this.

https://fortune.com/2023/10/25/toyo...vehicles-ev-ford-gm-tesla-earnings-elon-musk/
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We do ned to realize this is media generated stories. Must didnt lose a dime, this is the fluctuation of the stock price. Which is unrealized gains and loses unless you sell. Depending on how one looks at it, he has doubled his money in 2023 which he did, in unrealized gains but he lost 50% of his fortune since 2021.
It's all media sensationalism they have to keep cranking out content even when there is none.
 
Oillover said:
Not surprising.

"EV madness" has been circling the toilet bowl for quite a while.
It was only a matter of time before the big players realize it's futility and stop wasting precious resources on it.
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We also have to acknowledge, the majority are not flocking to dealerships or the internet to buy them. Agree, not surprising as I have posted for a year now. They want to avoid a market flooded with unsaleable EVs. The electric grid is not going to replace gasoline stations any time soon and some type of advancement will be needed to make an EV the main family car. They will work as secondary cars for a lot of people but not 3rd and 4 cars either, like families with kids.

We are less than 3% of EVs on the road. It will be a decade or more before we hit 15% if ever. Here is the way I look at it.
I THINK we may like a 2024 Chevy Bolt for a second car, we rarely use the second car and never take trips with it. Many neighbors ride electric golf carts around our community. A Chevy Bolt will fill the same purpose in more comfort going to the club houses etc.:D

Im pretty sure GM now knows the small EVs will sell and Americans are not going to part with the big SUV cruisers. IN EV form they are way to expensive, inconvenient for wide open road traveling. Good news is GM planned (in a way) making sure even though they for some dumb reason said they would be all EV by 2035 (which we know is no longer) by building/retofitting a new state of the art v8 manufacturing engine plant. I suspect that big gasoline engines (v6 and v8) will be the status symbol in much of the country IF and only if smaller EV SUVs become prevalent.

Now throw in the fact of trying to keep EV prices at a sane level for what you are getting and recent UAW demands might for the short term make that impossible.
 
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I understand that the demand for EV's is (temporarily) stalling. A lot of factors at play, primarily the economy vis-a-vis high interest rates and high cost of the vehicles to start with.

But "the big guys" are going to be crying like little girls when there is a sudden and very high demand for EV's again and they are caught flat footed and years behind Tesla in development. They don't have the resources to pump into the EV product line now and think it is prudent to cut their losses while demand is slacking. I get it.

This is what happens when you start late to the party and don't have the kind of capital or brain talent needed to suddenly change what you have been doing for the last 100 years. But anyone who has lived on this planet for more than around 3 decades knows how quickly world events can suddenly change demand for certain products, goods and services. I can guarantee you that the nattering nabobs of negativism that are down on EV's at the moment will be reaching for their recipe books to see how to cook crow when all of a sudden EV demand starts to go vertical. And that could be anytime.
 
Smart move imo in the current environment. Slow and steady wins the race. They can team up at anytime, continue their own R&D, and sell what's making them money until they see fit to team up.
 
E365 said:
I’m not so sure. Toyota used to be the #1 selling automaker in the USA. GM has blown WAY
past them.



Honda’s growth rate is pretty massive right now too compared to Toyota.
Click to expand...
What are the growth improvements % based on? last years shortage of cars?
 
alarmguy said:
We do ned to realize this is media generated stories. Must didnt lose a dime, this is the fluctuation of the stock price. Which is unrealized gains and loses unless you sell. Depending on how one looks at it, he has doubled his money in 2023 which he did, in unrealized gains but he lost 50% of his fortune since 2021.
It's all media sensationalism they have to keep cranking out content even when there is none.
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Ya. This was the first one I could find as it related to Toyota that wasn't behind a pay wall (ex, WSJ)
 
Cujet said:
It takes a given amount of energy to do a specific amount of work. So the EV argument falls flat with me. fuel at the power plant is consumed at virtually the same rate per mile.
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I am looking at the power receptical and I do not see any pollution.
 
dogememe said:
Nope, end of 2024. Better for me anyway because I can't afford it right now anyway I just like whining that the car I want but can't afford isn't available. But I do really want one and am still super enthusiastic about EVs. Strange from someone who less than a year ago drove a lifted Yukon. LOL.

https://electrek.co/2023/10/24/gm-delays-equinox-ev-and-electric-trucks-ultium-bolt-update-in-q3/
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Im confused... but that happens ;)
Im reading this = "In Q4, GM expects 2/3 of EV production to consist of the Cadillac Lyriq, Chevy Blazer EV, Chevy Silverado EV (Work Truck edition), and GMC Hummer EV."

and this = GM’s leader explained on the company’s earnings call that the EV delays will impact Ultum-based models, including the Equinox EV, Silverado EV RST, and GMC Sierra EV. Although no specifics were mentioned, Barra said it would be “a few months.”

and the fact that GM website still says fall 2023. Maybe it was supposed to be out summer of 2023 and now not until fall (4th quarter) ?

At any rate they beat the Tesla truck by YEARS *LOL*

and cool that GM will pay for an electrical connection at your home.
 
DwightFrye said:
I understand that the demand for EV's is (temporarily) stalling. A lot of factors at play, primarily the economy vis-a-vis high interest rates and high cost of the vehicles to start with.

But "the big guys" are going to be crying like little girls when there is a sudden and very high demand for EV's again and they are caught flat footed and years behind Tesla in development. They don't have the resources to pump into the EV product line now and think it is prudent to cut their losses while demand is slacking. I get it.

This is what happens when you start late to the party and don't have the kind of capital or brain talent needed to suddenly change what you have been doing for the last 100 years. But anyone who has lived on this planet for more than around 3 decades knows how quickly world events can suddenly change demand for certain products, goods and services. I can guarantee you that the nattering nabobs of negativism that are down on EV's at the moment will be reaching for their recipe books to see how to cook crow when all of a sudden EV demand starts to go vertical. And that could be anytime.
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Tesla’s biggest problem is Elon Musk. The long term problem!
 
wpod said:
I would like to ask what would make you want an Ev?
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I've owned two dozen gas vehicles and fell in love with EVs recently. I love the quietness, smoothness, and quickness. And saving on gas is cool of course. I don't pretend I'm saving the planet with EVs I simply like the cheaper cost per mile while the around-town driving is zippy. My Volt is slow, sure, but I spend most of my driving doing 0-30 and it can do that quite nicely. Equinox EV would be a huge upgrade. Bolt EV is a great price BUT DCFC topping out at 50Kw is a no for me. Equinox EV will have 150Kw or better.
 
Is demand for EV's slowing? It's not really that cut and dried.

Originally when Telsa reported a dip in China growth it was easy to claim "EV sales" are slowing but then GMs dip was more severe (12% v 14%)

In terms of EV sales-

Ford is up YTY.
Kia EV6 sales are up.
BMW is up.
VW is up.
Even GM claims their Q3 EV demand is up - then this.

Remember this was all going to be very easy to do, Tesla had no advantages, and the market would be flooded with cheap EV's that all performed the same.
Now in a complete reversal its hard and no one can make money at it.

Aside from the now defunct bolt, GM's EV offerings are extremely expensive rich guy products.
What people aren't going to do is buy 60K EV's that arent competitive, or 100K trucks that cant tow regardless of who makes them.

The Silverado appears to be best of breed, but they arent going to be very available and dealers will jack the price to the moon.

This feels a lot like sour grapes.


https://www.autoweek.com/news/a45586672/ev-demand-trends-gm-ford/
 
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Soft Cars said:
The kind of energy I'm talking about you don't need any mining or transportation. All you need is water and sunshine. The microbes seem to find their own way into the water, although I suspect they're probably placed there to speed up the process. And then all you have to do is wait for the microbes to go to the restroom and then collect their waste which is a nice refined oil. And then all you have to do is separate the oil from the water which isn't too hard to do since oil and water don't mix. The final process of refining the microbe waste into alcohol I'm not so sure about, but it's been done by some clever chemists.
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This is fantastic. The process could be made better using dilithium crystals and the "expeliamus" spell, don't you agree?
 
Passport1 said:
EVs will stall out.

The primary reason is that anthropomorphic global warming is a fanstasma. Most people know it. Another recent study from a scientific group in Norway said that any temp increase is insignificant and can't be attributed to human activity.

Drip, drip, drip.
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Yep. And 200 years ago we had a mini ice age.
 
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