GM and Honda calling it quits...

Passport1 said:
EVs will stall out.

The primary reason is that anthropomorphic global warming is a fanstasma. Most people know it. Another recent study from a scientific group in Norway said that any temp increase is insignificant and can't be attributed to human activity.

Drip, drip, drip.
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It would be interesting to find out who is funding all these "studies".
 
garageman402 said:
It would be interesting to find out who is funding all these "studies".
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Don’t even bother with that garbage. Human activity is raising atmospheric CO2 levels, and increased CO2 does have a net warming effect. The magnitude of the effect and its impact on ice sheet stability is what is controversial, not the basic mechanism or premise.
 
Trav said:
I don't understand why you keep talking that crap the muskrat cant build a truck either.
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OK, let me try to explain...
The big boys, with all their history and experience have yet to make a profit on their EV endeavors; far from it.
In fact, they are losing billions of dollars. GM and Honda just punted on their project and dissolved their plans to build an affordable EV.

From Reuters:
TOKYO, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Honda Motor (7267.T) and General Motors (GM) (GM.N) are scrapping a plan to jointly develop affordable electric vehicles (EVs), the companies said on Wednesday, just a year after they agreed to work together in a $5 billion effort to try to beat Tesla (TSLA.O) in sales.
The decision underscores GM's strategic shift to slow the launch of several EV models to focus on profitability, as it grapples with the rising cost of United Auto Workers strikes, which surged to $200 million a week this month.

I hope this explains my point.
 
Older guys been down this hysterical road before. We survived.

1969

1698267873822.png
 
garageman402 said:
Don't really know if it's more or less. The question was if there is any fuel that will not emit any carbon. You would have to examine the molecular structure to see how many carbon atoms per molecule, & how many molecules would be required to deliver a set amount of energy. The carbon will bind to oxygen & create CO2
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Well for what it's worth, I found this on the internet:

"On top of all that, vehicles running on ethanol produce significantly fewer harmful emissions than vehicles burning gasoline. Unlike petroleum- based fuels, ethanol produces no net carbon dioxide emissions. That’s because ethanol is made from plants that remove carbon dioxide from the air while growing."

U.S. Department of Energy
 
Passport1 said:
Older guys been down this hysterical road before. We survived.

1969

View attachment 185152
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There’s an important difference between hysterics and actual science. It’s not all hysterics, despite the best attempts of various political persuasions to corrupt the nuance and actual basis of truth with catastrophism and science denialism. There is good 12C/13C isotope ratio evidence that shows that humans are increasing atmospheric CO2. There is evidence in experimental, rock, and ice core data that suggests a causal relationship between CO2 and warming.

This doesn’t mean the Antarctic circumpolar current will break down. It doesn’t mean the methane hydrates will destabilize. It doesn’t mean the Greenland ice sheet will totally melt (although with this one, we shall see…) It does mean there’s cause for reducing CO2 where it makes economic sense to do so.

Ignorance of the facts is excusable only because of the politicization of the issue, but an accurate, up-to-date understanding of the current research is not impossible for a layperson to achieve, if they’re willing to set aside any cognitive dissonance it may cause.
 
Ws6 said:
Good. I want Honda to make their own stuff. We don't need GM ruining that.
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My guess is they are likely going to eventually buy Denso / Aisin stuff that Toyota license out, now that Toyota has gotten some of the stuff mature. Honda has good stuff in many area but also have been behind in others (auto transmission for example) and they do buy stuff instead of making everything themselves.

Another possibility is the cost structure changed after the recent union strike and possible future sourcing from union plants will make things way more expensive.
 
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PandaBear said:
My guess is they are likely going to buy Denso / Aisin stuff that Toyota license out, now that Toyota has gotten some of the stuff mature. Honda has good stuff in many area but also have been behind in others (auto transmission for example) and they do buy stuff instead of making everything themselves.

Another possibility is the cost structure changed after the recent union strike and possible future sourcing from union plants will make things way more expensive.
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Ones a union shop the other isnt - thats never easy.
 
JeffKeryk said:
OK, let me try to explain...
The big boys, with all their history and experience have yet to make a profit on their EV endeavors; far from it.
In fact, they are losing billions of dollars. GM and Honda just punted on their project and dissolved their plans to build an affordable EV.

From Reuters:
TOKYO, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Honda Motor (7267.T) and General Motors (GM) (GM.N) are scrapping a plan to jointly develop affordable electric vehicles (EVs), the companies said on Wednesday, just a year after they agreed to work together in a $5 billion effort to try to beat Tesla (TSLA.O) in sales.
The decision underscores GM's strategic shift to slow the launch of several EV models to focus on profitability, as it grapples with the rising cost of United Auto Workers strikes, which surged to $200 million a week this month.

I hope this explains my point.
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The muskrat AKA Mr auto pilot) has enough problems coming his way. I hope they hurt him bad.
 
I think a stepped approach to electrification through plug in hybrids would be better than trying to flip a “switch” (all puns intended) to mass EVs. Give me a decent ice engine with a 60 real world mile battery that would take care of over 90% of my daily driving and that would be the best of both worlds.
Important that the battery could be used when desired. Going on a 200mile trip? Use the battery in town getting to the interstate, switching to ice on the interstate and use battery again at the destination town. This allows both means of propulsion to be used where they are most efficient.
A plus would be to have each company standardize the small battery so they could easily be swapped out in the future so in the future the vehicle doesn’t become a paper weight as it ages
And making the battery change standard and easier would make it cheaper to do so.
 
Soft Cars said:
I still believe it's possible to make a fuel that puts out next to zero emissions. Who's to blame; the engine or the fuel?
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What you believe is not true when you account for energy production, mining, transmission and so on. Only children think that electric cars are emission-free.
 
It takes a given amount of energy to do a specific amount of work. So the EV argument falls flat with me. fuel at the power plant is consumed at virtually the same rate per mile.
 
TomYoung said:
What you believe is not true when you account for energy production, mining, transmission and so on. Only children think that electric cars are emission-free.
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Not sure what he’s saying - but, Toyota and ExxonMobil have a JV to come up with cleaner ICE …
 
Cujet said:
It takes a given amount of energy to do a specific amount of work. So the EV argument falls flat with me. fuel at the power plant is consumed at virtually the same rate per mile.
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One of the few “green” advantages will come from CCS which you can pull off and even repurpose at a fixed peaker plant …
 
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